S
SD2
Guest
No no, what I meant was that we can't dwell on the past as far as recreating that particular kind of beauty here in Toronto.
|
|
|
No no, what I meant was that we can't dwell on the past as far as recreating that particular kind of beauty here in Toronto.
M
marksimpson7843
Guest
Paris with 1000s of buildings of exactly the same height and style can have the same dullness effect as our "glass boxes"
G
ganjavih
Guest
"Those pics of Rome are nice...but can't dwell on the past."
Well, perhaps we could get some ideas that might create better neighbourhoods other than towers on podiums. Rome is incredible by the way. Unlike North American cities that have only a few vibrant streets, Rome is packed with them... everywhere you turn is vibrant street life... you can't escape it.
Well, perhaps we could get some ideas that might create better neighbourhoods other than towers on podiums. Rome is incredible by the way. Unlike North American cities that have only a few vibrant streets, Rome is packed with them... everywhere you turn is vibrant street life... you can't escape it.
S
sleeksky
Guest
I should probably mention that every one of those buildings in Rome was built with materials salvaged from older demolished structures that were knocked down to make way for new buildings. I believe the same is more or less true of Paris as well.
S
SD2
Guest
Yea...that's what I meant. Toronto should really intensify it's many smaller, more intimate streets. Would really enhance the already great atmosphere in the city. That's one thing that makes Montreal so appealing.
Also, it's great how those buildings are built right to the street...need to follow the same form, and use quality materials and design/lighting to give an inviting feel, without looking cheap. I need to do a better job explaining...
A
Archivistower
Guest
I have a theory about one of the reasons why European cities and New York have such incredible street life. I believe it may have something to do with the size of their dwellings as well. The lack of affordable space means that many people live in very small surroundings, and they share those. No chance of having a dinner party for six people, most people just don't have the space - so a lot more entertaining happens outside the home. I think in N. America, proportionally, a lot more entertaining happens at home. I'll admit to not being sure about this, but it came on me when I read an article about a New Yorker doing TaiChi in a park, because she had no space in her apartment to do it, and I thought "that's why so much happens on the streets there" (or, it's one of the reasons, hardly the only one).
Anyways, a long way of saying, that now that the smalleest condos are 380 sq ft. we may be heading more this way ourselves.
Anyways, a long way of saying, that now that the smalleest condos are 380 sq ft. we may be heading more this way ourselves.
M
miketoronto
Guest
Archivistower. Apartments in Europe are actually nothing like here. Go to Italy and check out the apartments of all my family members. The apartments are larger then houses here. Complete with two levels, etc.
I think that is why apartment life there is not considered bad, like it is here. Because the apartments and condos there are so large.
I think the reason the streetlife is so busy in European cities, is because they don't have as much suburbs.
Take my dads city for example, which is the size of Ottawa. Ottawa has like what, 5 suburban malls. My dad's city has none. Everyone even in the small towns, has to go into downtown for major shopping. No suburban department store branches, or chain store branches. Everything is downtown or in urban neighbourhoods. That is why it is so busy.
Same with ROME. I know they built an outlet mall outside the city. But everything else is in the downtown or urban neighbourhoods. No suburban malls. That is why the streets are so busy.
Everything in consentrated into urban streets. Not into mall hallways.
I think that is why apartment life there is not considered bad, like it is here. Because the apartments and condos there are so large.
I think the reason the streetlife is so busy in European cities, is because they don't have as much suburbs.
Take my dads city for example, which is the size of Ottawa. Ottawa has like what, 5 suburban malls. My dad's city has none. Everyone even in the small towns, has to go into downtown for major shopping. No suburban department store branches, or chain store branches. Everything is downtown or in urban neighbourhoods. That is why it is so busy.
Same with ROME. I know they built an outlet mall outside the city. But everything else is in the downtown or urban neighbourhoods. No suburban malls. That is why the streets are so busy.
Everything in consentrated into urban streets. Not into mall hallways.
J
Jarrek
Guest
The argument for tearing down MLG because it serves no purpose is simply ludicrous.
:x
www.interlog.com/~urbanism/savemlg.html
Check out some of those quotes on that page. I think everyone of them states a valid point. It's a historic building, it's one that is treasured among Leafs fans, and one of the oldest hockey arenas in the world. What should be done with it? The offices of the NHL and the Hockey Hall of fame should be relocated to the MLG.
People just don't build like they used to.
While it hasn't been en masse, cities have done it. See SkyScraperPage.com. In New York, the 47 storey Singer Building serves as one example.
It's all about the implementation. You're right to a certain extent, but even those small buildings in Paris have a lot more charachter in them then our glass towers. Why? Well because they were built at a time where a lot more detail was being placed into buildings.
Exactly.
:x
www.interlog.com/~urbanism/savemlg.html
Check out some of those quotes on that page. I think everyone of them states a valid point. It's a historic building, it's one that is treasured among Leafs fans, and one of the oldest hockey arenas in the world. What should be done with it? The offices of the NHL and the Hockey Hall of fame should be relocated to the MLG.
People just don't build like they used to.
While it hasn't been en masse, cities have done it. See SkyScraperPage.com. In New York, the 47 storey Singer Building serves as one example.
It's all about the implementation. You're right to a certain extent, but even those small buildings in Paris have a lot more charachter in them then our glass towers. Why? Well because they were built at a time where a lot more detail was being placed into buildings.
Exactly.
A
AlchemisTO
Guest
Bullshit.
C
Canuck 36
Guest
Concise. Informative. Controversial.
A gold standard Leonard. :tup:
A gold standard Leonard. :tup:
A
AlchemisTO
Guest
Archivist,
Yes, I have that same feeling too. A small living space forces people out onto the street and makes the area quite bustling. It's not the only reason, but it does make poorer neighbourhoods of town - where more children live in smaller living environments seem so alive.
mark simpson,
I would disagree that Paris' built environment is so strictly uniform as to be monotone and drab. It's the mingling of people and not just the buildings themselves that add colour to any urban experience. Paris' street arrangement is based on more intimate side streets that intersect at acute angles. When three or more streets intersect in this fashion, you get a very ad hoc and lively pad of public space. Add to this the Parisian cafe and street culture...
Anyway, this is slightly off topic. I agree with some others here that the most important grounds for preservation is the adaptability of the building for new uses.
Yes, I have that same feeling too. A small living space forces people out onto the street and makes the area quite bustling. It's not the only reason, but it does make poorer neighbourhoods of town - where more children live in smaller living environments seem so alive.
mark simpson,
I would disagree that Paris' built environment is so strictly uniform as to be monotone and drab. It's the mingling of people and not just the buildings themselves that add colour to any urban experience. Paris' street arrangement is based on more intimate side streets that intersect at acute angles. When three or more streets intersect in this fashion, you get a very ad hoc and lively pad of public space. Add to this the Parisian cafe and street culture...
Anyway, this is slightly off topic. I agree with some others here that the most important grounds for preservation is the adaptability of the building for new uses.
W
wyliepoon
Guest
It's interesting to note that it was the European modernists' (Le Corbusier, for example) hatred of the chaotic, asymmetric European inner city neighbourhoods that got them to think about "urban renewal" and replacing the inner city with "towers in parks", separated by expressways.
And guess what! It was the North American cities that picked up this idea when we built our housing projects and our expressways!
Le Corbusier's Plan Voisin for Paris.
And guess what! It was the North American cities that picked up this idea when we built our housing projects and our expressways!
Le Corbusier's Plan Voisin for Paris.
C
Canuck 36
Guest
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :x
But thanx wylie for showing me that no matter how bad things are, they can always be far far worse.
Man, that's awful. I wouldn't wish that fate even upon cities I hate. Not even Mississauga.
But thanx wylie for showing me that no matter how bad things are, they can always be far far worse.
Man, that's awful. I wouldn't wish that fate even upon cities I hate. Not even Mississauga.
C
cdl42
Guest
As for the whole European thing, maybe too much emphasis is being put on built form and not enough on culture.
In danger of sounding like Mike, I'll relate what my dad told me. He stated that, growing up in England, the family wouldn't have people over for dinner, but would instead meet up at a pub. No worrying about cooking or doing dishes, so all the time could be spent in conversation. This wasn't in an urban city, but in a completely rural small village. In fact, my folks still do this in Canada with another British couple that they know.
I think that too much credit for people's behaviour is being placed on bricks and mortar. Form follows function; if a culture places emphasis on entertaining in one's own home, the buildings would likely be designed to facilitate that.
In danger of sounding like Mike, I'll relate what my dad told me. He stated that, growing up in England, the family wouldn't have people over for dinner, but would instead meet up at a pub. No worrying about cooking or doing dishes, so all the time could be spent in conversation. This wasn't in an urban city, but in a completely rural small village. In fact, my folks still do this in Canada with another British couple that they know.
I think that too much credit for people's behaviour is being placed on bricks and mortar. Form follows function; if a culture places emphasis on entertaining in one's own home, the buildings would likely be designed to facilitate that.
D
Darkstar416
Guest
Are you paying his air fare too Mike? If so, the family might begin to "talk" if you know what I mean.
