Privatizing Garbage Collection

[Admiral Beez]

Am I the only one that thinks the city workers union did the garbage collectors a terrible disfavour by pushing for the 2009 strike? Imagine the difference today if Rob Ford didn't have the strike to use as an excuse, and instead had to really show the numbers to prove that privatization would save money over the long-term. Meanwhile the garbage collectors could be claiming that serving the city was their top job, and saying that their refusal to go on strike demonstrates their commitment to the public.

Instead the garbage collectors are looking to a public for support (with the radio ads for one), when they held that same public ransom when they refused to do the job Torontonians hired them to do.

 

[Hipster Duck]

No, you're not the only one. I am very supportive of maintaining living wages for working class people, having worked at some jobs in my younger days that were almost Dickensian. But when those garbage workers went on strike in the height of summer, during a recession, to keep a sick bank, they really crossed the line. To add insult to injury, they turned parks in some of the poorest neighbourhoods into temporary garbage dumps, meaning that many people who don't have access to backyards or gyms couldn't even enjoy the outdoors all summer long. So much for equity.

The garbage strike was nothing but selfishness. I don't care much for Rob Ford, but I am behind him 100% on privatization. I don't even care if it's not cheaper - I just want that union to be taught a severe lesson.

 

[DanTheMan]

Just FYI, in terms of the sick bank. The city is now spending more money with the new sick plan. Absenteeism is way up because before there was incentive to save up the sick time as a little retirement bonus for yourself. Now the 'use them or lose them' program has people taking time off in which they were more likely to try and tough it out before. Certain departments need to cover these absences with overtime, with is time and a half.

 

[gabe]

Oh look at the Ford supporters are out in full force!!! Alberta called, they're missing their village idiots. You should probably read the union side of the story, not just the idiot Conservative side.

 

[DanTheMan]

The garbage strike was nothing but selfishness. I don't care much for Rob Ford, but I am behind him 100% on privatization. I don't even care if it's not cheaper - I just want that union to be taught a severe lesson.

The union did not want that strike, period. The union was prepared to negotiate months and months prior to that even beginning but the city kept stalling until the last minute. Privatization will do nothing to 'teach the union a lesson', it will only cost a few hundred people their jobs. The city will end up paying more money, as just about every independant study has shown.

 

[nfitz]

Now the 'use them or lose them' program has people taking time off in which they were more likely to try and tough it out before.

On the other hand, having workers show up sick and contagious doesn't help anyone. I've had employees come in quite clearly sick ... "I came in anyway" ... "Gee thanks ... go home please".

 

[spider]

Bad as the strike looked for the Union the problem was made much worse by Miller's refusal to allow non-union people to remove the garbage from the parks and ordering the Police to allow egregious picket line delays. Ironically the Unions best friend turned out to be their worst enemy. The general public lays their frustration at the feet of the Union when the worst culprit was Mayor Miller.

If I were allowed to deliver my garbage unimpeded to a collection centre and it was promptly disposed of by whomever I would be a happy camper but I understand that most people don't have the time or inclination to do this. For this reason the City employs garbage collectors to collect garbage, not just in order to provide employment.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Regardless of the ideology and history behind this move to privatize garbage collection -- it's revenge, mostly, but maybe that's okay -- it seems indisputable that the current staff recommendation to rush through the RFQ process and award a quarter billion dollar contract without so much as a council vote is, frankly, really dumb.

 

[jeff316]

Taking on the unions is always a lose-lose when it's done by the left. Miller was nuts to do that. Why they haven't figured that out, I don't know.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Oh look at the Ford supporters are out in full force!!! Alberta called, they're missing their village idiots. You should probably read the union side of the story, not just the idiot Conservative side.

This is an odd post, IMO. No one has said anything in support of Ford. My original suggestion was that the garbage strike seriously damaged the union's ability to reach out to the citizens of Toronto and to demand a fair and reasonable review of the supposed benefits of privatization.

 

[TrickyRicky]

The undercurrent I believe is that the public thinks that city union employees are compensated (wage and benefits) in a fashion that is too out of line with the service that is provided. Privatization isn't necessarily anti-union, the private collectors may be unionized. Privatization is anti-city union and we should clarify that distinction.

 

[DanTheMan]

The undercurrent I believe is that the public thinks that city union employees are compensated (wage and benefits) in a fashion that is too out of line with the service that is provided. Privatization isn't necessarily anti-union, the private collectors may be unionized. Privatization is anti-city union and we should clarify that distinction.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're referring to the garbage collectors, and not the other (forgotten and under-represented) members of 416. I really don't think it should be a crime to earn a wage to live off of. What the people of toronto don't realize is how good they actually have it. For the rediculously low property taxes that we pay we get excellent service. I used to commute in from york region and there is a very noticeable difference in the cleanliness of the streets as you cross steeles. The garbage collection and snow plowing services were nowhere near as dependable.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're referring to the garbage collectors, and not the other (forgotten and under-represented) members of 416. I really don't think it should be a crime to earn a wage to live off of. What the people of toronto don't realize is how good they actually have it. For the rediculously low property taxes that we pay we get excellent service. I used to commute in from york region and there is a very noticeable difference in the cleanliness of the streets as you cross steeles. The garbage collection and snow plowing services were nowhere near as dependable.

What I think you don't understand is that people who oppose the garbage workers' union are opposing them on emotional and symbolic grounds. Economic rationality is not going to make a dent in your argument. A lot of people don't care if private garbage collection is less efficient and costs more money - as long as revenge is dealt upon a union who disrupted city services for an entire summer to keep a lavish benefit that almost nobody else (like the taxpaying public that pays their salaries) gets to enjoy.

I think if you asked the average person on the street during the garbage strike, whether they'd be willing to let the union win in exchange for paying slightly less taxes or quashing them and paying a little more, you'd be surprised by the response.

We usually look down on emotional responses, or revenge, and think that nothing is as ridiculous as cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. I disagree, though. Sometimes revenge is necessary; emotions are a powerful way to get people rallied up and enacting change and little change was ever achieved when people boiled issues down to dollars and cents. We're human, after all. We're more emotional than rational.

 

[doug]

For the rediculously low property taxes that we pay we get excellent service.

Unless you're a condo owner... you pay, but don't get any garbage collection service.

 

[shilly]

It's a slippery slope. They contract out garbage and then what's next? The Long term care facilities? Shelters? Water? Rob Ford is barely literate. He doesn't read staff reports presented to him and refuses to listen to any reasonable offers from staff.

Just a disclaimer. I'm a municipal employee, and a young one at that. As a municipal employee, I deal with the public apparently a lot more than Ford does. I work my ass off as I've stated before, and this guy wants to come in and assume that he knows what people think?

Like DantheMan has stated, there are other municipal services that are on the chopping block. and if Fordand his ugly sister want to as Doug Ford has stated, "privatize anything that isn't nailed down" this city will turn into Detroit. Property taxes will drop, but there will be no city services. No recreational places for young families to bring their kids, homeless living back on the street instead of shelters, licencing prices will go up and it will take forever to get anything processed.

There are horror stories about what happens in private care facilities, and when the dollar is put ahead of the actual care of the residents, that is what tragically is the result.