Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[thettctransitfanatic]

Lovely. So there's no money for healthcare, education, or transportation, but somehow there's always cash for bastardizing the waterfront.

To some degree, I feel like as of late, he is flooding the zone to distract from his other scandals/corruption, and to distract from the failing healthcare/education systems. He also seems increasingly doing these grandiose projects, which leads me to believe he is gripped with his legacy and I guess these objectively terrible projects are what he thinks his ''legacy'' will be.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

I'm not a waterfront resident so this is already not in my backyard. I am a Torontonian who uses the waterfront as much as I can. The "whisper jets" argument is so dishonest and based on a technicality that most people (looking at you) don't check. Yes, the newer jets are fairly quiet in flight and even on approach but all jets, particularly on a short runway, need to use thrust reversal to slow the plane down. Those are — pardon my French — f*cking loud!

I've been a twice-daily waterfront user for 10 years myself - cycling all the way along Martin Goodman trail from the west end to downtown core right past the airport. I guess I'm not as sensitive to the noise of the airplanes. I mean, I hear them all the time, but for me they just blend into the overall background noise of the hustle and bustle of the busy city. And the turboprops also have thrust reversing and that's the loud part. I just don't see how the jets would be worse. The way propellers buzz during thrust reverse probably sounds a lot more jarring than the white noise of the jet engines.

I've also not been a witness to any of the performances being interrupted by the planes landing while I was enjoying the music gardens gigs. That's problematic. And I do get the argument about intensifying airport operations.

There are noise abetment strategies that were recommended to the airport years ago. They would mitigate these noise concerns whether you're operating jets or turboprops alike, especially the reverse thrust noise levels. Maybe pressuring Billy Bishop airport into implementing the noise abetment strategies is what the public should be focused on instead of focusing on the jets-vs-turboprop war.

Just my two cents.

 

[afransen]

It's not just about same number of flights with jets replacing turboprops. Enabling jets will support more destinations and potentially significantly more flights per day. All while we spent billions on enabling waterfront real estate.

 

[Mihairokov]

I've been a twice-daily waterfront user for 10 years myself - cycling all the way along Martin Goodman trail from the west end to downtown core right past the airport. I guess I'm not as sensitive to the noise of the airplanes. I mean, I hear them all the time, but for me they just blend into the overall background noise of the hustle and bustle of the busy city.

I watch planes approaching and departing Bishop most days and hardly ever hear them. Things like sirens from emergency vehicles are far more intrusive to my living experience.

 

[nightstreak]

I watch planes approaching and departing Bishop most days and hardly ever hear them. Things like sirens from emergency vehicles are far more intrusive to my living experience.

Sound is funny. I've sat on a rooftop patio on the waterfront and didn't hear much at all. I don't hear anything at Harbourfront Centre. My office in the financial core, I can hear the reverse thrust of landings through the closed windows — but only at night. The Music Garden is usually fine, but sometimes the direction of the wind makes it unusable for performers.

A small airport is fine on the waterfront. A major expansion to serve the over capacity at YYZ is not. It's not reasonable to destroy billions of dollars of public and private investment on building out waterfront communities to serve someone who doesn't want to take a 25 minute train to a proper airport.

 

[Mihairokov]

My office in the financial core, I can hear the reverse thrust of landings through the closed windows — but only at night.

Friend, at the office at night? Don't work so hard!

A small airport is fine on the waterfront. A major expansion to serve the over capacity at YYZ is not.

Agreed. The expansion plan from Ford is nonsense, and he's continuing to play mayor in a city that doesn't vote for him. It's tiresome.

 

[nightstreak]

Friend, at the office at night? Don't work so hard!

Don't give my wife any ammunition.

 

[lenaitch]

I want the feds to rewrite the "creature of the province" BS, or institute exemptions for large cities allowing them to have greater self-governance (like just about every other country does), well beyond the toothless CoTA.

That would take a constitutional amendment.

And
Good
Luck
With
That.

 

[Mihairokov]

That would take a constitutional amendment.

You're not wrong but I think it's incredibly lame that anything moderately foundational to rejuvenating this country fails a very basic constitutional smell test. We'll succumb to the same issues as those south of us not only with such a mechanism in place but also if we have the same beliefs in the lack of flexibility in the system itself. We can do anything in this country if we set our minds to it and this sort of reaction to change is exactly why we're backsliding.

 

[zang]

That would take a constitutional amendment.

And
Good
Luck
With
That.

It's not like constitutional amendments are particularly rare:

Amendments to the Constitution of Canada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The City of Toronto should rename the Douglas B. Ford Park (1521 Royal York Road) back to Weston Wood Park. It was named after Rob & Doug's father, in 2010.

The bad news is that since all the cities in Ontario are "children" of the province, Doug Ford will likely veto that.

 

[afransen]

It's not like constitutional amendments are particularly rare:

Amendments to the Constitution of Canada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Constitutional amendments are not all equal. Some can be adopted easily, without the more strict amending formula. I think changing the jurisdiction of provinces to protect municipal government would require the more stringent amending criteria which has not seen recent success since Meech and Charlottetown.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

...I'd rather they amend the act of cities being creatures of Province then giving the feds that power with the provinces. Cause you know, the CCP would go to town with that if they got into power. So, please no. And thank you.

 

[lenaitch]

It's not like constitutional amendments are particularly rare:

Amendments to the Constitution of Canada - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All of the amendments since 1982 have been under Sec. 43 - not impacting all provinces, or Sec. 44 - generally, executive operation of government.

Not only would every other large city want to jump on this bandwagon, it would be creating a new governing entity, with the power of taxation and whatever other authorities, which would require the general amending formula.

...I'd rather they amend the act of cities being creatures of Province then giving the feds that power with the provinces. Cause you know, the CCP would go to town with that if they got into power. So, please no. And thank you.

A poor understanding on constitutional law. There are two levels of responsible government in Canada; municipalities aren't one of them. Ontario devolves some of its responsibilities via the Municipal Act and other provinces have their counterparts. If they repealed the Act tomorrow, municipal governments would cease to exist and every part of Ontario would have to be directly governed by the province.

The authority to elect representatives, levy taxes, and do other public things come from the Constitution, either by the federal government under Section 91or a province under Section 92. There are currently no other options.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

^...er, don't get at me, I was talking about fantasy amendments in the hypothetical...since that's where this conversation was going, lol.