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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

kEiThZ said:
Did anybody suggest unlicensed or unrestricted sales? Either your comprehension is terrible, or this is a strawman you've dreamt up.



What's amazing here is that your family benefits from a liberal alcohol sales regime in Europe and here you are arguing against the very same for Ontario. Amazing.



I think we can all agree that this more incompetence than an intentional cost incurred when passing the policy.



You have yet to explain the link between program cuts and alcohol liberalization. This is the third or fourth time I am asking. How are they linked?

Be specific.

You have also not answered the question of how government should weigh the importance of various issues against others. Why is your priority list more important than mine or that of my next door neighbours?
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No strawman no dreaming, no lack of comprehension, just concerns.
You said I might not be familiar with alcohol sales in Europe and I pointed out it was also regulated and licensed. At no time did I suggest anyone one mentioned that we were talking about unrestricted sales. Nothing strange that my family was involved in wholesale distribution, it's a business under a govt. license. Furthermore I made it clear I am not against liberalization of current beer sales. Again it's the cost involved to do so before the current contract expires. It is not an urgent priority to have beer sales at the corner store.

What is a priority? Education, healthcare and associated services, forestry, climate change. There are no direct links between liberal alcohol sales and program cancellations and budget cuts. However huge amount of money is wasted on contract cancellations, such as Green Energy, hydro sales, and the firing of the ceo (remember Ford Gaslighting Ontario claiming it didn't cost them severance pay)

My priority list is mine, yours is different that's democracy. The point I was making is that this government is willing to cancel a contract that is slated to expire in a few years and most likely willing to pay the fines, but is slashing essential services, health care because of budget restraints and austerity plans.

Are you done with your interrogation?
 
Northern Light said:
Sorry @Thinker , I happen to believe you are a very smart fellow, I've agreed w/many of your posts over the years. But I'm in agreement with @kEiThZ that you are conflating different things.

Neither he, nor I are endorsing Mr. Ford, or his policies on any number of issues. We are endorsing one principle he happens to espouse, we aren't even agreeing with his methods/costs on getting there.

We're saying the principle is correct; and that implemented properly there should be no material costs to the state.
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Thanks for the compliment, but this thinker is not a fellow :) And I never said either you or @kEiThZ are Ford supporters :)

So we are all in agreement of the principle, but not if there is a huge price tag attached.
 
Thinker said:
The point I was making is that this government is willing to cancel a contract that is slated to expire in a few years and most likely willing to pay the fines, but is slashing essential services, health care because of budget restraints and austerity plans.
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First, never chalk up to malice what you can to incompetence as the phrase goes. I don't think it was so much that they were "willing to cancel a contract" as Ford and his ministers not knowing that the government had contractual liabilities with The Beer Store. Personally, I'd be just as happy if they made the announcement and set the liberalization dates for the end of the contract.

Also, this isn't just about beer....

Thinker said:
It is not an urgent priority to have beer sales at the corner store.
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I have taken issue with this simply because the argument is bunk. There are many things that governments of every stripe do that are not a priority, but are done anyway. Especially true when all it takes is legislation and not actual funding.

I strongly suspect that Ford thought opening up beer sales involved just legislation. Sort of like them figuring out the severance they had to pay after terminating Hydro One's CEO. They didn't think it would cost them much....until it did.

Thinker said:
this government is willing to cancel a contract that is slated to expire in a few years and most likely willing to pay the fines, but is slashing essential services, health care because of budget restraints and austerity plans.
Click to expand...

These aren't, however, linked. If they had not liberalized beer sales, they'd still be cutting program spending, and that is largely because they believe that is what they've been elected to do.


By the way, I'm a rather light drinker. Maybe a glass of wine or a cocktail once a week. And beer is even more rare for me. What bugs me is the principle and forced inconvenience imposed by bureaucratic nonsense. May not be a real priority for anyone. But I will applaud anyone who actually cuts down on some of the worst aspects of the Nanny State in this province.
 
I won't speak for @kEiThZ

But for myself, my signature is not a contradiction.

I believe in robust universal healthcare (pharmacare, dentalcare etc.), and in high employment standards (paid personal days, more paid vacation and a higher minimum wage, as examples)

Yet, I also believe gov't shouldn't waste resources policing personal mores except and unless they clearly, negative impact others. Then, you police the bad behavior, not the underlying freedom, unless the latter proves essential.

Its possible to believe in a reasonably robust welfare state; but also oppose waste and mindless interventionism.
 
Sooo.

Saw this twitter post this morning..........and was amused.

This fellow apparently phoned the Premier on his cell, on the number he publicly posts, and actually got a call back from Doug.....

I will let the link do the rest of the talking.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1121626979097145344
 
Northern Light said:
Its possible to believe in a reasonably robust welfare state; but also oppose waste and mindless interventionism.
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Pretty much where I am at. When I was in the US, I repeatedly made the pitch to my American colleagues for universal healthcare on economic grounds. Not compassionate ones.

The US spends ~19% of GDP on healthcare. Canada spends 10%. Canadians also live longer, in a much harsher climate. People talk about how much the Americans spend on defence. It's 4% of GDP. The deficit? Even Trump's record spending was < 4% of GDP. Infrastructure deficit/spending gap? 2.6% of GDP compared to Europe. And that's all before we talk about what having healthy workers and increased labour mobility does for your economy. The biggest argument for healthcare in the US, should be that it saves them enough that they can fix so many other problems.
 
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Northern Light said:
Sooo.

Saw this twitter post this morning..........and was amused.

This fellow apparently phoned the Premier on his cell, on the number he publicly posts, and actually got a call back from Doug.....

I will let the link do the rest of the talking.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1121626979097145344
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If DoFo renovated houses the way he conducts government, he'd remove a critical structural element and cause the whole place to collapse.
 
[B]Daniel Enright[/B]‏ @[B]Thisisupcountry[/B] 21h21 hours ago
More
13/ to be clear, I have no idea how or who is running this province. I spoke to a man who didn’t seem to have a grasp of the facts, the effects of his cuts, or how hollow his words sound. I wish I had the energy to keep talking. But it’s all so defeating. Maybe next time.....
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I was about to answer :"Wormtongue is the one to talk to" but Fedeli is already mentioned further down the tweets.
steveintoronto said:
images

840 × 630 - ottawacitizen.com

183259
1920 × 800
Lord of the Rings Grima Wormtongue ...
pinterest.com
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Northern Light said:
Sooo.

Saw this twitter post this morning..........and was amused.

This fellow apparently phoned the Premier on his cell, on the number he publicly posts, and actually got a call back from Doug.....

I will let the link do the rest of the talking.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1121626979097145344
Click to expand...

That's hilarious (or frightening) and I did read down for some of the conversation. I got a kick out of post 12 where he disses all political parties and claims people voted for him. I wonder if his party knows that to him they are just expendable enablers (or care- they're in power) or does he honestly believe he alone has some form of direct mandate.
 
lenaitch said:
That's hilarious (or frightening) and I did read down for some of the conversation. I got a kick out of post 12 where he disses all political parties and claims people voted for him. I wonder if his party knows that to him they are just expendable enablers (or care- they're in power) or does he honestly believe he alone has some form of direct mandate.
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I've said before: don't be surprised if not only does he not last his term as Premier, but he jumps or is pushed from the PCs as well--a bit of a Maxime Bernier situation. (And remember that Mad Max's father Gilles was forced into running as an Independent in '93--and won!)
 
lenaitch said:
That's hilarious (or frightening) and I did read down for some of the conversation. I got a kick out of post 12 where he disses all political parties and claims people voted for him. I wonder if his party knows that to him they are just expendable enablers (or care- they're in power) or does he honestly believe he alone has some form of direct mandate.
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Sadly he does even know the smell of his own bullshit.(scary) Yet he continues to use it to manipulate voters who may not understand the complexity of the problem. But hey! Let's just blame Wynne and the federal government when it’s boiled down flooding and the price of gas and hallway medicine. Cause we all know Doug is "for the little guy"
 
lenaitch said:
Well, if he takes over the subway system, he can claim he made the trains run on time.
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Or some catastrophe will happen as a result of his cuts (and he'll pass the blame), and then he'll turn up at the hospital bed of a victim of said catastrophe as proof that "he cares", with the usual here's-my-number offerings, etc...
 
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