Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[narduch]

Is there a theme that typifies the Ford Family dynasty better than doing dumb things before thinking it out?

Beer in corner stores could cost Ontario taxpayers $1B, industry sources say

Beer in corner stores could cost Ontario taxpayers $1 billion, industry sources say

Industry officials argue that adding thousands of small retail outlets would dramatically increase distribution costs, lowering profit margins for brewers and leading to higher beer prices for consumers.

www.thestar.com

This just goes to show once again what a disaster Wynne was

 

[zang]

This just goes to show once again what a disaster Wynne was

A problem that has only arisen because of Doug Ford is somehow Wynne's problem? I also doubt that any other PC government or the NDP would've tried to reneg on the deal. It's only because we have a headstrong asshat as premiere who feels contracts mean nothing.

 

[narduch]

A problem that has only arisen because of Doug Ford is somehow Wynne's problem? I also doubt that any other PC government or the NDP would've tried to reneg on the deal. It's only because we have a headstrong asshat as premiere who feels contracts mean nothing.

Wynne signed a deal that was good for the Beer Store and bad for the people of Ontario. So yes, its her fault. This is an aside from the fact that Ford is a fucking idiot who is doing a bad job of running the Province.

 

[old boy]

Skul-Dougery - For the People !

 

[Northern Light]

This just goes to show once again what a disaster Wynne was

Overreach.

Wynne definitely fell short in some areas; and this deal was a poor one.

But from there to disaster is an uphill climb.

 

[narduch]

Overreach.

Wynne definitely fell short in some areas; and this deal was a poor one.

But from there to disaster is an uphill climb.

Ontario Hydro sale, etc.....

 

[Northern Light]

A problem that has only arisen because of Doug Ford is somehow Wynne's problem? I also doubt that any other PC government or the NDP would've tried to reneg on the deal. It's only because we have a headstrong asshat as premiere who feels contracts mean nothing.

To be fair, it was an awful and unnecessary deal. The Beer Store has no intrinsic right, legal, constitutional or otherwise to a monopoly. In point of fact, in the absence of legislation granting one, the act of having one would be illegal
under competition laws.

There was no buy-off required, or permission needed to loosen the monopoly. It wasn't merely a courtesy or a legal nicety to make a deal, it was, charitably, ill-conceived and contrary to Ontario's interests.

One might not be wrong to wonder why any 'deal' was made at all, let alone one which included penalty clauses against Ontario for partially extending an otherwise illegal monopoly by way of this deal and supporting statutes?

***

Don't take that to mean that I think Ford should fork over 1B by any stretch of the imagination.

I think he should sit down w/the brewers and say he's been thinking that their corporate profits seem excessive, and as such he's been thinking of raising corporate tax on breweries from 11.5% to 23%; is there any reason they could think of that he might want to reconsider......?

In the interim, he still has a couple of hundred supermarket permits he can give out/sell.

Which will diminish the marketshare of the Beer Store by about 10-20%, and which, in turn would reduce the profit of said company and therefore any compensation to which they might be entitled.

Then I'm sure a happy medium can be found..........another 100 spots upfront; reduce the term of the deal to 7 years from 10...........blah blah.

 

[zang]

To be fair, it was an awful and unnecessary deal. The Beer Store has no intrinsic right, legal, constitutional or otherwise to a monopoly.

But, legally speaking they don't, at least not for end consumers. The exclusivity only comes in 12-24 packs and to restaurants. I can buy 24 beers from Loblaws or the LCBO, just not in a neat package.
And no, the Beer Store deal wasn't the best one, but the contract is already nearly half over and our beer still remains less expensive than the country's average. Thinking that it's hurting Ontarians so much that immediate remedy is needed is a little rich. While it is a monopoly, it's a monopoly under many restrictions (price, marketing, shelf-space, etc.). The original Beer Store exclusivity deal (2000) was before Molson and Sleeman's were bought out by foreign companies, and most of the Beer Store profits were still staying inside the country. Yes, it needs renegotiation, but not at a point where it's gonna cost us more in lawsuits.

Ford just wants another populist "buck a beer" stunt that'll last more than 6 months and has no faith that he'll be around when the contract ends in 6 years.

Don't take that to mean that I think Ford should fork over 1B by any stretch of the imagination.

Given the Hydro board situation, Ford has shown himself unwilling to compromise or wait through a contract. He's more than willing to put taxpayers on the hook "for the people". We've already spent hundreds of millions in contract cancellations. All he has to do is just point to the Liberals and say "they made costly contract cancellations too!" (except he won't be nearly as cogent; he'll yell "Hydro plant canceled!" and wait for the seals to harp).

 

[zang]

Ontario Hydro sale, etc.....

Lets not kid ourselves that the PCs weren't planning to sell it either, k?

 

[Thinker]

Ontario Hydro sale, etc.....

Uh yeah, true, but I distinctly recall the filling in of some subway tunnels, selling off the 407 and closing rural medical facilities. The Libs may have made a deal that favoured brewers, but it didn't cost them billions to do it. Beer stores got a monopoly, so why can't we wait a wee little longer for this deal to expire. I am sure the province didn't come out empty handed when they signed the deal. I am certain this beersud billion can be put to good use elsewhere. In the meantime keep calm and wait for the next essential service budget cut.

Beergate 2019 what's next?

 

[narduch]

Lets not kid ourselves that the PCs weren't planning to sell it either, k?

2 wrongs don't make a right though.

Its not like Ford has tried to sell of the rest, yet.

 

[kEiThZ]

Honestly, alcohol liberalization wasn't a priority. But it's one of the few things I actually agree with Ford on. And I am sort of glad he didn't put it off to die eventually. I've really gotten sick of the nanny state around alcohol, cannabis, etc. largely as a result of lobbies like MADD, who've gone from advocating against drunk driving to becoming a neo-temperance movement also opposed to higher speed limits.

I sincerely hope he tackles higher speed limits on the 400-series highways too. We all know 100 kph is ridiculous. Even it just goes up to 110 kph like the rest of Canada, that would be a decent accomplishment.

These are all small annoyances that government after government has ignored or simply perpetuated. If Ford addresses some of these, he will have delivered more actual tangible policy for most of the public than most premiers. Sure, the rest of his government and the shortsighted policies will still suck. But at least, I will be less likely to get a ticket driving home at 120 kph and I will actually have a beer in a park without risking arrest.

 

[Thinker]

Honestly, alcohol liberalization wasn't a priority. But it's one of the few things I actually agree with Ford on. And I am sort of glad he didn't put it off to die eventually. I've really gotten sick of the nanny state around alcohol, cannabis, etc. largely as a result of lobbies like MADD, who've gone from advocating against drunk driving to becoming a neo-temperance movement also opposed to higher speed limits.

I sincerely hope he tackles higher speed limits on the 400-series highways too. We all know 100 kph is ridiculous. Even it just goes up to 110 kph like the rest of Canada, that would be a decent accomplishment.

These are all small annoyances that government after government has ignored or simply perpetuated. If Ford addresses some of these, he will have delivered more actual tangible policy for most of the public than most premiers. Sure, the rest of his government and the shortsighted policies will still suck. But at least, I will be less likely to get a ticket driving home at 120 kph and I will actually have a beer in a park without risking arrest.

I wouldn't lump MADD into a neo-temperance file when they are clearly against drinking and driving or driving under influence of cannabis. Every day we hear about accidents and deaths that occur because of such avoidable causes. Actually people who think MADD is useless should tag along with those who have to notify next of kin after their loved one has been maimed or killed by a drunk driver.

Increasing speed on the 400 hwys won't get you probably any faster to your destination, it's the volume of traffic that has increased and those hwys are unable to handle the traffic. Hwy traffic fatalities dramatically decreased when the speed limit was dropped from 110 to 100 because of drivers doing 110 to 130 kms per hr.

Now about you having a beer in the park without getting a ticket? Yeah but there is still a law which is called "public intoxication" which will get you a night in jail and a ticket.

Changing alcohol laws and speed limits are not a tangible policies and neither is canceling health services, autism programs, library services, school programs, arts, hydro etc etc.

Just heard the news Ford is looking into cutting OHIP coverage when you travel outside the province - good luck getting insurance on a pre-existing condition without paying a fortune (although it was always advisable to take out extra insurance when traveling outside Ontario) Ohip had previously covered some if not all diagnostic services when such services were not readily available within Ontario.

But yeah we have alcohol, and can buy drinks at 9 am, no health and addiction services however.

Bleh...

 

[kEiThZ]

I wouldn't lump MADD into a neo-temperance file when they are clearly against drinking and driving or driving under influence of cannabis. Every day we hear about accidents and deaths that occur because of such avoidable causes. Actually people who think MADD is useless should tag along with those who have to notify next of kin after their loved one has been maimed or killed by a drunk driver.

Oh please. Drunk driving incident rates have come down substantially over the last few decades. Social norms have changed around this. And that's why MADD has moved on to talking about adjacent issues like speed limits. Happens with every lobby group that outlives their initial cause.

Increasing speed on the 400 hwys won't get you probably any faster to your destination,

It won't get me anywhere faster. But it will cancel the corrupt practice of ticketing what is effectively traffic speed outside urban areas.

Hwy traffic fatalities dramatically decreased when the speed limit was dropped from 110 to 100 because of drivers doing 110 to 130 kms per hr.

BS. And Ontario still has worse road fatality rates than many places where higher speed limits are allowed. Why is it that fewer people are killed on the narrower freeways of Europe where most posted speed limits are 130 kph and traffic is often moving at 140-160 kph? I'm sure enforcement and driver education have nothing to do with it right?

I'm not even suggesting 130 kph (which is what the 400 series highways were designed for). The rest of Canada has 110 kph on roads that are far, far less controlled than the 400 series highways. You won't get a tractor pulling out from an intersection on the 401. But you will get that on the Trans-Canada in Saskatchewan or Manitoba. And they have no issues with 110 kph. What makes Ontario special?

How many folks here actually drive at the posted speed limit? Do it in the passing lane of the 401 Express and see if you don't get a ticket for obstructing traffic. Even the cops think the speed limits are a joke until they need make quota.....

Yeah but there is still a law which is called "public intoxication" which will get you a night in jail and a ticket.

If you don't get the difference between a beer or a glass of wine in the park and public intoxication you can't be helped.

Again. All I am asking is that Ontario join the rest of the developed world. No more. No less. I don't think Ontarians are any more prone to public drunkeness than the average European or Kiwi, or somehow spectacularly terrible drivers who need speed limits 10 km/h lower than the rest of Canada. I really don't care whether it's a Liberal, Conservative or NDP government that makes these changes. These are common sense.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And the bad news keeps coming...

Ontario PCs Propose Ending Health Coverage For Travellers Outside Canada
The government says Ontarians should get private insurance before they leave the country.

From link.

The Ontario government wants to end health coverage for Ontarians travelling out of the country.

The Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care posted a proposed amendment to a regulation under the Health Insurance Act Wednesday.

The proposal would end Ontario's Out-of-Country (OOC) Travellers Program, which reimburses Ontarians for health-care costs they incur while travelling to a maximum of $200 a day for inpatient care and $50 a day for outpatient care.

The Ontario Health Insurance Program (OHIP) only ends up covering an average of five per cent of travellers' medical costs, the proposal says.

"With this very limited coverage and the low reimbursement rates ... provided by the OOC Travellers Program, OHIP-eligible persons who do not purchase private travel health insurance can be left with catastrophically large bills to pay because of OOC emergency medical care."

Ontarians travelling in other parts of Canada will continue to have coverage, the Ministry's proposal says, but those leaving the country should get private insurance before they leave.

A spokeswoman for Minister of Health Christine Elliott said the program spends a third of its funding on administration and does not provide meaningful coverage.

"Every year the ministry spends $2.8 million to administer approximately $9 million in claim payments," Hayley Chazan told HuffPost Canada in an email.

"On top of that, 90 per cent of the payments made through this program have went directly to the private travel industry, which submits claims on behalf of their insured clients."

Members of the public can comment on the proposal until Tuesday at this link.

The six-day window for consultation shows the government's disregard for the public, NDP health critic France Gélinas said in a statement.

"[Premier Doug] Ford's proposed change to OHIP coverage for Ontarians traveling out of country fits a disturbing pattern of this government bypassing public consultation as it tries to force through rapid changes to our health care system," she said.