Plans to fill in Allen Road

[dunkalunk]

I've further refined the concept to include colour-coded ramps:

I suggest that anyone interested take the .kml into Google Earth to take a look at the elevation profiles of the tunnel and ramps and look at a flythough with 2x elevation exaggeration. The grades of the roadway work quite well with the terrain.

 

[Neil]

The 1960's called. They want your brain back.

 

[dunkalunk]

The 1960's called. They want your brain back.

Cars aren't going away any time soon. The only reasonable way I see to get people to agree to pay tolls on municipal highway infrastructure is to somehow make it "Better" in the process. The bottleneck at Eglinton is a problem and will continue to be a problem for the for the forseeable future and would be worth looking at fixing. Otherwise the city may as well just pour the dirt from the Eglinton Crosstown into the ditch and forget that Allen Road ever existed.

 

[sixrings]

otherwise the city may as well just pour the dirt from the eglinton crosstown into the ditch and forget that allen road ever existed.

bingo

 

[dunkalunk]

What I'm trying to get at is that I see the Allen as having the potential of being an imporant revenue source for the city as the city's population grows to 5 Million and the Metro Area to 10 within the next 40 years, but only if it becomes a corridor worth tolling.

 

[sixrings]

To make revenue you would need to charge more then the construction cost. So if the toll to pay for the construction was 10$ each way then you are suggesting charging 20$ as a way to make revenue? Isure drivers will love that idea.

 

[dunkalunk]

There is no reason you couldn't use the loans as a lean to gain financing for the project over a 30 year payback period.

 

[sixrings]

There is no reason you couldn't use the loans as a lean to gain financing for the project over a 30 year payback period.

You could get loans which would take 20-30 years to pay back at between 10-20$ a trip. There was a report done earlier and I will have to look it up that estimated to get the allen to bloor and be paid for by tolls would cost upwards to 30$ a trip. I'm just baffled at how anyone can think that people will continue to drive if they have to pay for downtown parking and pay a toll on the way in. Essentially you are suggesting car drivers are willing to pay upwards of 60$ a day to continue to drive. That's 1200$ a month for the luxury of driving. Not only that but why not come down streets like oak wood or dufferin or bathurst or Spadina which are free. Its not like every car on the Allen is a Benz, BMW or a bentley, a good portion of traffic would avoid this toll, like the plague. And if people avoided it then the tolls would have to be increased to make up the difference. As for being a revenue source for other things in the city as was suggested, wouldn't that mean raising the tolls even more. Where is the limit?

This is the same reason why I can't support burying the Gardner. To pay for it the tolls would be so much people would avoid it anyway. If that's the case then what is the point?

 

[dunkalunk]

Also against burying the Gardiner for similar reasons. There is nowhere to bury it that would not be monstrously expensive (rail corridor, off the waterfront) or cause massive disruption (rail corridor, existing ROW)

Although, my proposed Allen extension only consists of a 1.4 KM tunnel through relatively clear terrain and would come above ground before encountering any major water table issues. As well, it only extends to Bathurst, not Bloor. I would however be interested in taking a look at the report you cite if you are able to locate it.

 

[BurlOak]

To make revenue you would need to charge more then the construction cost. So if the toll to pay for the construction was 10$ each way then you are suggesting charging 20$ as a way to make revenue? Isure drivers will love that idea.

I would like to see a report on what the toll would be. Here is a quick calculation:

1600 vehicles per hour per lane x 4 lanes x 12 hours/day x 4 km/trip x 300 days/year x 20 years = $1.8B km driven in 20 years.

Cost of extension to Bathurst = 1.4km tunnel x $250M/km + 0.8 km x $60M/km = $400M.

Toll per km = $0.4B/$1.8B = 22 cents per km, OR about $1 per trip.

 

[sixrings]

I would like to see a report on what the toll would be. Here is a quick calculation:

1600 vehicles per hour per lane x 4 lanes x 12 hours/day x 4 km/trip x 300 days/year x 20 years = $1.8B km driven in 20 years.

Cost of extension to Bathurst = 1.4km tunnel x $250M/km + 0.8 km x $60M/km = $400M.

Toll per km = $0.4B/$1.8B = 22 cents per km, OR about $1 per trip.

I went through every page in this thread thinking the link to the article would be in here somewhere. It also seems that DUNK has been advocating a tunnel since 2010 while I have been proposing filling in the north bound allen lanes for the same amount of time...(North bound because it causes congestion on Eglinton where as southbound the congestion stays on the allen until it disperses on Eglinton) Anyways its late and I cant find the link so after a quick google I found this Toronto Star Article which I will admit is bias towards never making a tunnel. Ill search further over the weekend...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tor.../860307--the-return-of-the-spadina-expressway

 

[mtomo]

They should take down the 401/Allen Rd interchange, just convert it into a parclo. They should take down the flyover ramps and put traffic lights. There can be access from Allen south to 401 east via the Allen South-Yorkdale exit. And also take down the northbound access to 401 express lanes. It will reduce maintainance costs, and it will be a lot less confusing. Allen Road will never be extended to Gardiner, so might as well do it.

 

[Conrad Black]

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[BurlOak]

There is the Beltline Trail (officially Kay Gardner Beltline Park) running parallel to Eglinton between the Allan Road and Chaplin Crescent. Bicyclists could bypass that section and could also use Castlefield to continue their trips. The Beltline Trail is missing a bridge over the Allen Road, which would continue it to at least Caledonia Road. If done properly they cold connect the Beltline as part of a bike lane/path network along Eglinton.

I moved this from the Eglinton thread. As for filling in the Allen, it looks like the window of opportunity has been missed, so we may want to look at other ways of alleviating the bottleneck at the bottom of Eglinton and giving an alternate route downtown.

Earlier I recall a concept to tunnel the Allen under Eglinton and then join up with Bathurst. Rocco Rossi also suggested continuing the tunnelling all the way to the Gardiner.

Maybe we could use the Key Gardiner Beltline trail. It may be too narrow, but I will assume it is at least the 10m that would be required. A SB off-ramp would be located north of Elm Ridge Dr. and would continue south to Aldburn Road. A similar on-ramp would be built from Aldburn Road to Elm Ridge Dr. and then onto the Allen. These would be connected to the beltway and continue to Bathurst Ave. and Chaplin Cres. I have an option with traffic signals and stop signs at the Allen, or with a "roundabout" using the 2 bridges. (I also have a SB to EB only option which is probably the worst of the group). The Beltline road would have no turns onto Oak Park Road - I suggest stop signs, but traffic lights may be needed because of the proximity to Elm Ridge Circle. At Bathurst, I would limit turns to EB to SB and NB to WB. It would join into Chaplin Cres. at a Y intersection.

Would the locals accept this - most certainly not, but it was a fun exercise to try to come up with a less expensive solution. After all, every decade the "extend Allen" argument gains traction so why not plan ahead.

 

[Uncle Teddy]

Crazy idea that will never happen.