Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)

[lenaitch]

Those are in western Ontario. Pickering would serve eastern Ontario. Surely you have a map? It's a 140 km drive between either of those airports and the Pickering Airport Lands.

But what of expanding existing airports in the eastern GTA? There's the Oshawa Executive Airport (YOO), for example, where the runway is longer than that of Billy Bishop and already serves E-Jets. Or the Peterborough Municipal Airport (YPQ), with its 7,000 ft. runway? VIA Rail's new HSR will run right past this airport and could offer fast service from eastern GTA, Kingston and elsewhere.

Oshawa is fairly hemmed-in for any expansion, particularly if they have to install RESA zones. General aviation getting pushed out of dense population/high volume air traffic areas is probably pretty common worldwide.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Oshawa is fairly hemmed-in for any expansion, particularly if they have to install RESA zones. General aviation getting pushed out of dense population/high volume air traffic areas is probably pretty common worldwide.

Good point. The best place for a GTAA airport is in the lake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Artificial_island_airports

Like Kanzai, Japan below. Imagine this in Lake Ontario. The 401-418 interchange at Darlington makes sense as it's close to the lake and any rail or highway connection to the lake would go through already-held government land.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

Good point. The best place for a GTAA airport is in the lake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Artificial_island_airports

Like Kanzai, Japan below. Imagine this in Lake Ontario. The 401-418 interchange at Darlington makes sense as it's close to the lake and any rail or highway connection to the lake would go through already-held government land.

I can see this in Japan where available land can be scarce but it's a really bad idea here. Fog, lake effect snow, and cost are just a couple of things that immediately spring to mind. With so much land available, I can't see this as even a remote possibility.

 

[micheal_can]

Good point. The best place for a GTAA airport is in the lake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Artificial_island_airports

Like Kanzai, Japan below. Imagine this in Lake Ontario. The 401-418 interchange at Darlington makes sense as it's close to the lake and any rail or highway connection to the lake would go through already-held government land.

Or we build up HSR in Canada and the USA such that we can cut routes that can be done in close to the same time.
For instance, at 300 km/hr, Montreal and Ottawa flights could be removed. How many slots would that free up? Even flights to London ON and Windsor become pointless with HSR.

 

[turbanplanner]

Or we build up HSR in Canada and the USA such that we can cut routes that can be done in close to the same time.
For instance, at 300 km/hr, Montreal and Ottawa flights could be removed. How many slots would that free up? Even flights to London ON and Windsor become pointless with HSR.

HSR wouldn't help the millions of people born in other countries visit their relatives back home.

 

[micheal_can]

HSR wouldn't help the millions of people born in other countries visit their relatives back home.

You are right. That does mean thought hat we would have more slots to more places that you need to cross an ocean to get to. hat is also where the real money in flying comes from.

 

[turbanplanner]

You are right. That does mean thought hat we would have more slots to more places that you need to cross an ocean to get to. hat is also where the real money in flying comes from.

I know, but those slots aren't much help if the airport is 200+ km away from you like the Hamilton would be for people east of the GTA

 

[Bureaucromancer]

It seems to me like the really key thing is that the closure of the whole laundry list of GA facilities, and quite possibly Billy Bishop (I've never seen its existence as especially harmful, and would be more inclined to close it in connection to HSR than Pickering - really I think that a single runway should be kept, GA (other than air ambulance) kicked out and a streetcar link built, with public housing built on the lands south of the main runway), should be the condition for supporting any kind of Pickering facility.

 

[turbanplanner]

It seems to me like the really key thing is that the closure of the whole laundry list of GA facilities, and quite possibly Billy Bishop (I've never seen its existence as especially harmful, and would be more inclined to close it in connection to HSR than Pickering - really I think that a single runway should be kept, GA (other than air ambulance) kicked out and a streetcar link built, with public housing built on the lands south of the main runway), should be the condition for supporting any kind of Pickering facility.

What is the benefit of closing more GA airports? Also YTZ's biggest asset is that it's near downtown. A field in Pickering wouldn't help with that. Same story for the air ambulances that delivery patients to downtown hospitals.

 

[micheal_can]

I know, but those slots aren't much help if the airport is 200+ km away from you like the Hamilton would be for people east of the GTA

if GO RER ever fully becomes a reality with 15 minutes on every route, getting to Pearson is going to be easy. Also, with the planned "Union West" Pearson Hub having regular local service, plus GO, plus HSR, it won't be an issue. And if true HSR is built and 300km/hr speeds are reached throughout, 200km is a 40 minute ride away. Londoners can't even get to Kitchener in that time by driving.

 

[Midtown Hank]

The Brampton flight club airport is far to small to accommodate anything

It could easily be expanded to accommodate jets. The property is large enough. Longer runways and wider taxiways could be easily built. Coordination with Pearson would be required (as they are very close from an aviation standpoint).

 

[turbanplanner]

It could easily be expanded to accommodate jets. The property is large enough. Longer runways and wider taxiways could be easily built. Coordination with Pearson would be required (as they are very close from an aviation standpoint).

Lmao I used to fly there, I personally can attest there is no space!

The neighbours are unhappy with Cessnas flying around there I can’t imagine the politics of adding jets if you had a big enough space!

if GO RER ever fully becomes a reality with 15 minutes on every route, getting to Pearson is going to be easy. Also, with the planned "Union West" Pearson Hub having regular local service, plus GO, plus HSR, it won't be an issue. And if true HSR is built and 300km/hr speeds are reached throughout, 200km is a 40 minute ride away. Londoners can't even get to Kitchener in that time by driving.

GO is going to be what, 20 years behind their original electrification target and from what I remember the lakeshore east extension will still be diesel powered?

All the folks who could use a Pickering airport in let’s say 15 years? Will be retired by the time HSR is a reality.

Additionally, Pearson has THREE HOUR delays due to ATC issues regularly! I can’t imagine stuffing more flights there with less places to land if weather is bad or an emergency closes the field temporarily

 

[Tim MacDonald]

YYZ does not have 3hr delays due to ATC regularly. I've seen 2hr deicing related delays but not just run of the mill ATC problems.

 

[turbanplanner]

YYZ does not have 3hr delays due to ATC regularly. I've seen 2hr deicing related delays but not just run of the mill ATC problems.

3 hours is excessive not unheard of, 1-2 hour delays because of flow and planes will hold where they are departing from

 

[lenaitch]

Lmao I used to fly there, I personally can attest there is no space!

The neighbours are unhappy with Cessnas flying around there I can’t imagine the politics of adding jets if you had a big enough space!

Just looking from afar but there does seem to available surrounding land for expansion, even expropriation if it were to be in public hands. However, as you note, there is money in them thar hills and opposition would be well funded.

I wonder which group of developers owns the surrounding lands.