Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)

[MarkBrooks]

Name me one company that would not want a multi billion dollar contract with the government? I bet the companies that built Mirabel were enjoying that money too.

No one has yet to show HOW it would work. Westjet has said nothing. None of the cargo companies have said anything. Who will fly in and out of it?

A simple solution, the Feds can issue the RFP, and get to pick and choose which business case/ implementation they want. Want an all privately funded and run airport? then make that part of the RFP. No one will ever publicly say anything, who would show their hand? Who would give away millions spent on a business plan by publishing it for free ? What possible value would that be to them?
Issue the RFP, if no bidder satisfies the requirements then presto, no airport!

 

[micheal_can]

A simple solution, the Feds can issue the RFP, and get to pick and choose which business case/ implementation they want. Want an all privately funded and run airport? then make that part of the RFP. No one will ever publicly say anything, who would show their hand? Who would give away millions spent on a business plan by publishing it for free ? What possible value would that be to them?
Issue the RFP, if no bidder satisfies the requirements then presto, no airport!

The area has been proposing an airport since the 60s. Still nothing.

I would expect that even if YYZ hit max slots, the feds would look at a place like Hamilton to see what could be done to draw passengers/cargo to it first.

Ironically, the feds are looking at it now: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/ontario/report-pickering-lands.html So, we may get something substantive, or they may wish to leave things as is with Pickering.

 

[kEiThZ]

I just got to ask, if there is no business case, then why are private investors spending real $$$ building these business cases?

Can you post a link to the business case and the financing proposal from these investors? Would love to read it.

 

[narduch]

Its simple. Private investors are looking to cash in on hypothetical government subsidies.

 

[lenaitch]

He's also exaggerating. I don't find anything online of mass protests or boycotts in North Bay when Porter left. I actually found an article for a local taxpayer association whose President was happy with the decision since it meant an end to Porter's subsidies. Heck, AC cut service to North Bay a year after too. The demand just isn't there from some of these communities, despite what they believe.

And if they really believe they are hard done by, these towns are free to pay the airlines to run service to them. Just have to pay enough to AC or Westjet to make up for the difference of using that slot and/or airplane to a more profitable destination. How many towns willing to take up that offer?

I have family in NB and the problem with Porter was that much of the passenger load is destined for connecting flights. Porter is fine if your final destination is downtown Toronto or a community you can connect to by GO or VIA.

 

[micheal_can]

Its simple. Private investors are looking to cash in on hypothetical government subsidies.

^^^^^ This ^^^^

 

[kEiThZ]

I have family in NB and the problem with Porter was that much of the passenger load is destined for connecting flights. Porter is fine if your final destination is downtown Toronto or a community you can connect to by GO or VIA.

Exactly. Which tells you that so much of that traffic is dependent on airlines offering more destinations from the hub. That's exactly why they will cut flights to towns like North Bay because using those slots to launch new services elsewhere actually generates more demand from these towns after the cut.

 

[MarkBrooks]

So you want to see the business case? It’s simple, the government issues an RFP, private for Profit groups respond ( in confidence) being careful Not to reveal their business plans or tipping their hand to competitors.

After careful consideration a winner is chosen and the plan is revealed to the public.

We have not a moment to lose! Ask your Member of Parliament to get our future airborne!

 

[MarkBrooks]

I would just like reminded everyone of the urgency behind this project. Some facts and Considerations supporting the immediate construction of Pickering Airport:

Pickering Airport Facts and Considerations - Friends of Pickering Airport

Print 🖨 PDF 📄 eBook 📱 Why build a new airport now? In 1972, with praiseworthy farsightedness, the Canadian Government set aside thousands of acres of land just east of Toronto for a future airport. Since then, this billion-dollar public land reserve has been leased out to local farmers by...

pickeringairport.org

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

So you want to see the business case? It’s simple, the government issues an RFP, private for Profit groups respond ( in confidence) being careful Not to reveal their business plans or tipping their hand to competitors.

After careful consideration a winner is chosen and the plan is revealed to the public.

We have not a moment to lose! Ask your Member of Parliament to get our future airborne!

I don't think that's the business case they are talking about. I think they probably mean for airlin3es to fly out of it, an "if you build it they will come" approach could be a really bad idea in this case.

 

[MarkBrooks]

I don't think that's the business case they are talking about. I think they probably mean for airlin3es to fly out of it, an "if you build it they will come" approach could be a really bad idea in this case.

No airline is going to tip their hand to Air Canada, whichhas the majority of slots at Pearson. Even with the airport not opening until 2028, the usual suspects ( the airlines that are competing against Air Canada ) can be expected to be in play.

Air Canadas biggest challenge is how to delay Pickering airport as long as possible, so as to maximize its monopoly position. Better yet, could it hoodwink some unsuspecting politician into extending that monopoly into Pickering?

It all fun and games... welcome to the strange sport called Canadian free enterprise.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

I would just like reminded everyone of the urgency behind this project. Some facts and Considerations supporting the immediate construction of Pickering Airport:

Pickering Airport Facts and Considerations - Friends of Pickering Airport

Print 🖨 PDF 📄 eBook 📱 Why build a new airport now? In 1972, with praiseworthy farsightedness, the Canadian Government set aside thousands of acres of land just east of Toronto for a future airport. Since then, this billion-dollar public land reserve has been leased out to local farmers by...

pickeringairport.org

Most of those Considerations are spurious at best.

 

[kEiThZ]

So you want to see the business case? It’s simple, the government issues an RFP, private for Profit groups respond ( in confidence) being careful Not to reveal their business plans or tipping their hand to competitors.

No business case. No RFP. Government agencies aren't in the habit of spending millions writing an RFP and allocating billions in capital, without knowing what the infrastructure to be built will accomplish. That's how the process works. And I suspect you know that.

I suspect that your group at least has some rudimentary financial analysis. And I suspect, it's not as rosy as you suggest or we'd see a launch carrier(s) and a major infrastructure investor backing your pitch publicly.

No airline is going to tip their hand to Air Canada, whichhas the majority of slots at Pearson. Even with the airport not opening until 2028, the usual suspects ( the airlines that are competing against Air Canada ) can be expected to be in play.

Air Canadas biggest challenge is how to delay Pickering airport as long as possible, so as to maximize its monopoly position. Better yet, could it hoodwink some unsuspecting politician into extending that monopoly into Pickering?

It all fun and games... welcome to the strange sport called Canadian free enterprise.

Nobody cares about your whining about Air Canada. If the government cared that much about aviation competition, they would have allowed in more foreign carriers or invested substantial amounts in secondary airports which already exist (ie. Hamilton). The government is content with the level of competition which is why they have not done this to date. It's why EK and EY are still not daily in Toronto.

Also, the GTA has the most competitive aviation market in the country, thanks to YTZ and Porter. No other aviation corridor has three large carriers competing. How exactly does it benefit the GTA to launch a new airport which just might kill Porter? And if anybody thinks TC is not looking at that, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[kEiThZ]

Most of those Considerations are spurious at best.

The most hilariously spurious argument is that this airport helps fight climate change. An airport that will mostly fly smaller aircraft and be fed by roads is going to be apparently more environmentally friendly than an airport with rail service, planning a large rail/transit hub and operating 300-400 seat widebodies.

 

[kEiThZ]

Its simple. Private investors are looking to cash in on hypothetical government subsidies.

It'll be entertaining if Pickering is announced and the GTAA is given the mandate to develop and build the airport. I highly doubt this government (at least) would be interested in farming out such a development entirely to a private operator. And given the federal cash cow that is Pearson ($130 million in ground rent per year), how likely is it that the feds will simply allow a private operator to compete and destroy that cash flow?