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Peterborough Commuter Rail
- Thread starter RedRocket191
- Start date
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The current GO plans are a connection to the Spadina Line at Sheppard West and a connection to the St.Clair streetcar. I guess there are some merits to a station at St.Clair since Bloor and Eglinton will already be served on the Georgetown line.
jwill
Active Member
It works better for GO as a union-focused system to have the station at St. Clair, along with georgetown line stations at eglinton and bloor. But if metrolinx is serious about making a real network with options that dont include passing through Union station, then connecting to Lansdowne station would be much better.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
GO's plan to have trips avoid coming into the city or Union station that don't need to is transferring them to the 403-407 busway which will provide a loop around the city. The busway will create a frequent connection between the lines before they enter the city allowing people to switch onto the Barrie line from others lines to go to St.Clair or off the Barrie Line to go to Bloor or other stations inside the city. In addition, if you transfer to the Spadina Line at Sheppard West you will be travelling roughtly parallel to the Barrie line on a route which has stops at Eglinton and Bloor if that is the desired destination.
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Northern Light
Superstar
one-way centric
The problem with this is: Suppose i lived at Bloor & Lansdowne and want to go to Barrie?
You would have me run 1/2 way round town, and 20km out of my way to find a station. For all intents and purposes, I'd have to go to Union, and that just seems silly when the track is 200m away.
I agree that not every line needs a station every 2km, and many services can and should operate express. But if we want a true 'system' where people give up owning cars or a second car at any rate, and more likely than not to choose walk/cycle/transit for their commute, we have to think about 2-way service, as well as service between suburbs.
GO Midtown will help address this (between inner-burbs)
Ultimately I still think a full GO line is necessary E-W somewhere between the 401 and 407 corridors (or on them).
But I will concede that that is a much lower priority than many other worthwhile projects in the queue.
The problem with this is: Suppose i lived at Bloor & Lansdowne and want to go to Barrie?
You would have me run 1/2 way round town, and 20km out of my way to find a station. For all intents and purposes, I'd have to go to Union, and that just seems silly when the track is 200m away.
I agree that not every line needs a station every 2km, and many services can and should operate express. But if we want a true 'system' where people give up owning cars or a second car at any rate, and more likely than not to choose walk/cycle/transit for their commute, we have to think about 2-way service, as well as service between suburbs.
GO Midtown will help address this (between inner-burbs)
Ultimately I still think a full GO line is necessary E-W somewhere between the 401 and 407 corridors (or on them).
But I will concede that that is a much lower priority than many other worthwhile projects in the queue.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ I too would like a Go regional-type Midtown line, as well as some sort of northernly route, preferably in the Hydro Corridor, or otherwise on the 407.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Suppose you lived on St.Clair and wanted to go to Brampton. There can't be a GO station everywhere. The local system serves to get you to GO and GO serves to provide faster travel over longer distances. A station at St.Clair increases the travel options for more people than it eliminates. There is still a north-south bus routes on Lansdowne.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
drum118
Superstar
Yes there can be and it a must that more stations be built in Toronto.
A least 10 more stations on various lines.
I had a look today on the RC line at Eglinton and you can put 3 tracks in that area easy as well connect with the Eglinton Line and the road with no problem.
Even the 905 need more stations than there is now.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ I'm not advocating for any more stations on any of the Go lines until they get lighter electric vehicles in.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
I did some light research into the topic earlier this summer. We're really only looking at a 15% speed boost at maximum. It's not going to allow us to add more than a handful of stations without severely impacting travel times, based on a very quick comparison between the Lakeshore Line and Metro North Railway.
Basically switching to EMUs will only allow us to add one or two more stops across an entire line before times start increasing again.
I'm for it, but it's not the magic pill that everyone makes it out to be.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ EMUs really don't have much a higher speed than Go's current diesel locomotives. The increase in "speed" is going to be coming from the faster acceleration and stop/start times.
With the current locomotives, adding a few new stations on most of the lines mean the trains won't even be able to get up to their top speed between stations, which means everything goes a lot slower. With EMUs, they'd easily be able to reach their top speed much faster, which means a faster average speed.
The more stops and slow downs you have, the more the benefits of Multiple Unit and Electric trains become visible. Right now, trains take like three or four kilometers to reach their top speed. An EMU might be able to reach top speed in like half a kilometer, which means they go much faster. Basically, an extra station or two with the current trains are killer, but are a lot more manageable with EMUs.
With the current locomotives, adding a few new stations on most of the lines mean the trains won't even be able to get up to their top speed between stations, which means everything goes a lot slower. With EMUs, they'd easily be able to reach their top speed much faster, which means a faster average speed.
The more stops and slow downs you have, the more the benefits of Multiple Unit and Electric trains become visible. Right now, trains take like three or four kilometers to reach their top speed. An EMU might be able to reach top speed in like half a kilometer, which means they go much faster. Basically, an extra station or two with the current trains are killer, but are a lot more manageable with EMUs.
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RedRocket191
Senior Member
^ I realize and accounted for that and the calculations still came out the same.
The bottom line is this, if you put too many stops on the line then trains won't be able to reach their top speed of 90+ mph, no matter how quickly they can accelerate. Travel times will go down if you have a stop at every concession.
The trick is to balance the decrease in travel times with the increased convenience of more stops.
The bottom line is this, if you put too many stops on the line then trains won't be able to reach their top speed of 90+ mph, no matter how quickly they can accelerate. Travel times will go down if you have a stop at every concession.
The trick is to balance the decrease in travel times with the increased convenience of more stops.
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Northern Light
Superstar
Rocket
Rocket,
Did you look at the Lakeshore electrification study?
Now it did not involve new stations, but it showed a steeper reduction in travel times than 15% as I recall.
Yup, just looked it up, for local service, the BCA says 21.6% reduction in travel time, Hamilton to Toronto.
How do you resolve that? Just curious.
Rocket,
Did you look at the Lakeshore electrification study?
Now it did not involve new stations, but it showed a steeper reduction in travel times than 15% as I recall.
Yup, just looked it up, for local service, the BCA says 21.6% reduction in travel time, Hamilton to Toronto.
How do you resolve that? Just curious.
jwill
Active Member
Since GO is looking at up to 5 minute frequencies on its main lines, they have the opportunity to run some skip-stop services where half of the minor stations are skipped by one train, then the other half skipped by the next train. They would all still have 10 minute service, and connect to all the major stations without drastically reducing overall journey times.