Ontario's Electrical Supply

[Whoaccio]

I'm surprised this never really comes up on UT, but I thought I would start a thread on the future of Ontario's generating capacity. As most people know, McGuinty has been in the process of creating a plan to overhaul Ontario's current electrical supply because of age and environmental concerns. The two biggest parts of it are the closing down of Nanticoke -North America's largest coal fired station- and an order of 2-4 additional nuclear reactors in order to offset the loss in supply, as well as refurbishment of reactors at Bruce Nuclear. Incidentally, there are also subsidies for wind-power as well as a relaxed EA process for "renewables."

So, I suppose the crux of it is how do you think Ontario should best proceed? Its odd there is no real public discussion of this, given that it will probably be McGuinty's most important policy decision for Ontario. Its also fun in that it gives the most binary choice between environmental responsibility and economic viability.

P.S. I purposefully didn't include hydro power in the poll because I think most of the viable hydro supply is already exploited. I also didn't opt for any kind of "all of the above" options because I imagine it would overpower everything else.

EDIT: crap, is there anyway the mods could make this an open poll?

 

[Filip]

Nuclear power is the future, and has been for decades.

No amount of windmills can produce as much as nuclear power can. Although, an investment in hydroelectricity should be considered too.

 

[sjc]

>>>also didn't opt for any kind of "all of the above" options because I imagine it would overpower everything else.<<<

"all of the above" is the way to go. Nuclear, coal, hydro, natural gas, wind, solar, and anything else that is economic.

We will need more electricity going forward (especially if people want to use electric cars) and none of the options will work on their own (nuclear can provide stable power but can't handle daily variations; wind can provide lots of power, just not necessarily at the times when you need power -- it needs something like coal/natural gas to back it up). Solar is good at some times of year, at other times of year... not so much.

We need to develop as many different kinds of power as possible so that they can complement each other and ensure a stable and affordable supply of electricity to the people of Ontario.

Importation of power from south, east and/or west should be considered as well. As well as the potential market in those directions for any surplus power that we produce.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

is the poll multiple choice?

 

[ShonTron]

It's a mix.

I would support expansion of nuclear generation at Darlington or Bruce. More wind power (Ontario can support more of it), a western grid hook up with Manitoba to use some of its hydro potential, and conservation.

No coal. The current bunch of quick-and-easy gas plants should wrap up soon.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

It's a mix.

I would support expansion of nuclear generation at Darlington or Bruce. More wind power (Ontario can support more of it), a western grid hook up with Manitoba to use some of its hydro potential, and conservation.

No coal. The current bunch of quick-and-easy gas plants should wrap up soon.

i think coal should just be there as a reserve, a just in case type of thing if a nuke plant went temporarily offline, etc. shut off in normal times, brought online in an emergency.

speaking about gas, i was surprised to find out that old hearn was a natural gas fired power plant.

 

[junctionist]

At first it was a coal plant, and only later converted to gas.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

At first it was a coal plant, and only later converted to gas.

yup. even the tall chimney wasn't built till a while after the plant went into operation.

 

[toraerach]

A combination of conservation, renewables, and nuclear power should tide us over until some new technology comes along. I voted for conservation because I think we do waste a lot of energy and there are many small steps we can make to cut our demand. I also think people write off the renewables far too quickly. They have their place too. I don't particularly like nuclear energy, but it'll do for now. In the future we'll probably come up with something better (fusion power, etc.).

 

[isittimetomoveyet]

Nuclear power is the future, and has been for decades.
.

Far from it. Many will argue, myself included, that nuclear fission is on the way out. While it may be a technology that has certain merits, I believe the financial aspect of nuclear power will be the reason for its downfall. Nuclear plants are simply too expensive... look at Ontario's history in particular. We still have over 20 billion dollars of unpaid debt related to nuclear plant cost overruns. And consider that we havent even dealt with the long term storage issue... which some studies estimate as a cost in the billions, for which not even a penny has been put aside yet. It doesn't make financial sense. The latest reactor undergoing construction in Finland has seen its budget explode by 300%.

Considering this... and the costs of building large centralized plants in general, the future is in efficiency and becoming smarter in the way we use energy and electricity... and having renewables produce the power we do need. While I will never advocate against any renewable... as we need a mix of options to remedy this problem, in the long-term, solar PV will really become ubiquitous as soon as the price comes down... and it is already coming down quickly. As a matter of fact, First Solar has just announced they produced a panel for under $1/watt... which many consider to the point at which it really takes off. Every doubling of capacity worldwide reduces prices by approximately 20% of well.

We are simply far too inefficient in our use of electricity. Homes can be built to use literally no electricity or other energy, outside of appliances and gadgets, if built in a certain way.

Nonetheless, all of the above considered... this is why Dalton McGuinty, George Smitherman and the Liberals need some recognition on this file. The Green Energy Act of Ontario is a landmark piece of legislation that will put us in a position to be one of the worldwide leaders with respect to energy efficiency and renewable energy. They need their kudos for such a progressive and forward thinking piece of legislation!

Consider this rant over.

 

[kEiThZ]

I voted nuclear....but for me it has more to do with the timeframe. I don't buy that the current Liberal government is going to be as successful in curbing demand as they claim (though smart meters will help smooth the load curves) or in getting renewables up and running. So we will need nuclear at least to get us through the next 10-20 years. But beyond that, we really should be looking to implement a smart grid, build transmission lines to Quebec and Manitoba, and of course work on implementing more renewables. I'd like to see more small-scale hydro as well. Real effort on small hydro combined with grid improvements could probably be more successful than wind or solar in this province.

 

[Hydrogen]

Nukes.

Bring on Darlington B.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I voted conservation... but fusion power would be okay, if we can run a line to the sun.

 

[afransen]

I vote conservation, renewables/biomass and natural gas for the short term, holding off on additional nuclear until generation VI reactor technology has been tested and commercialized. The current waste situation isn't really acceptable. Until we have some confidence that it can be reprocessed and reused until only short half-life products remain, I'm hesitant to accept that nuclear if a viable option. I am, however, fairly confident that nuclear can play a safe and useful role in the future once some more work has been done.

I can see enhancing transmission connections with Quebec and neighbouring US states. I'm not sure Manitoba makes sense... it is awfully far from the consumer base in Ontario.

 

[ShonTron]

Manitoba should at least easily replace the Atikokan and Thunder Bay fossil fuel plants and provide the east-west connection that is probably a good idea. Tapping into Quebec's a good idea, if more power comes online, but H-Q already has lots of its power already headed to New England and NYS.