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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

OpenRailwayMap

OpenRailwayMap - An OpenStreetMap-based project for creating a map of the world's railway infrastructure.
www.openrailwaymap.org www.openrailwaymap.org

There are several lines going to Midland. The question is whether any of them are still intact.
 
micheal_can said:
https://www.facebook.com/Country905FM/posts/pfbid06FqgMiSjE1HtdxgW9P3MpDJj4keFYVqw2srjMc2SqZTjw6E5z9EDkr6vG7ZmkR9Vl



It is times like this where wanting a passenger train makes sense. So long as the line can be kept clear, the train keeps moving.
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Okay, say that this justification wasn't iffy on its own and hasn't been at least partially refuted in subsequent replies, the BCR of the Northlander is still negative. This means that doing nothing and not restoring it is a better outcome than investing in it. We could have taken the funds that would have been invested here and used them for other steps to help people in this region during extreme weather.

Northern Light said:
News Release from the above:

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca news.ontario.ca

Content:

View attachment 617441
View attachment 617443

And the new look:

View attachment 617447

'
View attachment 617449
View attachment 617450
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This project will fail. It was only a matter of if we actually wanted to go out and lose our shirts or stop it before construction got underway. We as a province have now committed to this and it will be a disaster. At least we can sell the trainsets, but what can we do with all the stations and platforms?

The lesson that should be learned from this is that something that is popular isn't necessarily the right course of action. People like to complain about Vancouver Island rail, but abandoning it and giving the RoW to the FNs was objectively the right call, especially from an economic perspective. But of course this government likes to chase votes in very expensive ways.
 
lenaitch said:
Yes it did! A friend's laneway was part of the old ROW.

We used to live in Wyebridge. Any idea where that station was? I've not seen that image before.
Click to expand...

I'd assume the station was at around Highway 93 and Subway Road - but I'm guessing. You can still see the remains of the "subway" where the track used to pass under the old 93 alignment, before they turned the T-junction there into a curve. I wouldn't be surprised if the station vanished as the road was rebuilt just after they pulled the tracks - but I'm guessing.

If you click on that station photo, it should link with a page that has a couple more photos of the station.

If you look in Google Maps, you can generally see where the alignment went, either from the vegetation, or sometimes the discolouration where it's now being plowed as part of adjacent fields.

1733641540849.png

lenaitch said:
There was also a spur that broke off somewhere around Elmvale and swung over to Hillsdale (it was apparently called the Hillsdale Tram) but I've not seen anything about the alignment.

Edit: Or the Flos Tram, I can't remember.
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Looking at mapping of old railway lines (user-sourced, some salt required) there is indeed a spur that comes off at the northern edge of Elmvale ... you can see the faintest hints of it in the air photo at Elmsdale itself. I'm not sure the map below has the correct alignment east of Baseline Road., and the chunk to Hillsdale is missing.

Apparently it was called indeed called the Flos Tramway, and did extend "around Orr Lake to Hillsdale according to this website - http://www.cnr-in-ontario.com/Subdivisions/Flos_Tramway.html It says that the piece south of Orr Lake was removed in 1917, and the rest in 1927.

That website is a bit flakey, and seems to throw some browsers. You can also see it in https://web.archive.org/web/2024061...in-ontario.com/Subdivisions/Flos_Tramway.html

1733641876967.png
 
Last edited:
C_Johnson_1995 said:
the BCR of the Northlander is still negative. This means that doing nothing and not restoring it is a better outcome than investing in it.
Click to expand...
BCR is not a perfect measurement, there are many things it does not / cannot take into account.
Also, not everything needs to have a positive BCR. There are many things that governments do that have "negative BCR" but they do for political, social or equity reasons.
Improvements to northern highways (e.g. 4 laning) may also have negative BCR given the small amount of traffic that would use a road.

(Another thing, the very fact that a train is being talked about in the news is good PR for the region)
 
nfitz said:
I'd assume the station was at around Highway 93 and Subway Road - but I'm guessing. You can still see the remains of the "subway" where the track used to pass under the old 93 alignment, before they turned the T-junction there into a curve. I wouldn't be surprised if the station vanished as the road was rebuilt just after they pulled the tracks - but I'm guessing.

If you click on that station photo, it should link with a page that has a couple more photos of the station.

If you look in Google Maps, you can generally see where the alignment went, either from the vegetation, or sometimes the discolouration where it's now being plowed as part of adjacent fields.

View attachment 617772


Looking at mapping of old railway lines (user-sourced, some salt required) there is indeed a spur that comes off at the northern edge of Elmvale ... you can see the faintest hints of it in the air photo at Elmsdale itself. I'm not sure the map below has the correct alignment east of Baseline Road., and the chunk to Hillsdale is missing.

Apparently it was called indeed called the Flos Tramway, and did extend "around Orr Lake to Hillsdale according to this website - http://www.cnr-in-ontario.com/Subdivisions/Flos_Tramway.html It says that the piece south of Orr Lake was removed in 1917, and the rest in 1927.

That website is a bit flakey, and seems to throw some browsers. You can also see it in https://web.archive.org/web/2024061...in-ontario.com/Subdivisions/Flos_Tramway.html

View attachment 617773
Click to expand...
Thanks. Just looking at the terrain behind the station there are a couple of places it could have been but it would be just guessing. Our farmhouse was roughly the letter 'b' in the 'Wyebridge Community Centre" label.

micheal_can said:

OpenRailwayMap

OpenRailwayMap - An OpenStreetMap-based project for creating a map of the world's railway infrastructure.
www.openrailwaymap.org www.openrailwaymap.org

There are several lines going to Midland. The question is whether any of them are still intact.
Click to expand...
No, they are not.
 
Not to derail the thread further, but I find it interesting that over 100+ years after removal of rails, railway rights of way are still quite visible in Satalite photos, even if on the ground there is little evidence that a railway was once there.
 
Fritter said:
Not to derail the thread further, but I find it interesting that over 100+ years after removal of rails, railway rights of way are still quite visible in Satalite photos, even if on the ground there is little evidence that a railway was once there.
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It is interesting. Lines of trees, cut or embankments make sense, but sometimes soil discolouration in a field that has been worked for years still comes through.

micheal_can said:
Each parcel of land needed that is not intact makes it that much harder to come back. Not impossible,but less likely until there is a crushing demand for it.
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In Midland's case, off the top of my head, other than ripping out its waterfront, tearing down an entire subdivision, rebuilding a highway subway, then ripping out Orillia's waterfront, then figuring out what to connect it to, it would be a piece of cake.
 
lenaitch said:
In Midland's case, off the top of my head, other than ripping out its waterfront, tearing down an entire subdivision, rebuilding a highway subway, then ripping out Orillia's waterfront, then figuring out what to connect it to, it would be a piece of cake.
Click to expand...

I don't know the area that well.
For Midland, could something be put at the edge of the town?
For Orillia, could a line from the existing Bala Sub connect to it along Highway 12
And, could Orillia be connected to Midland?

Basically, a line from Barrie to Midland and then over to Orillia and then connected to the Bala Sub.
(One day,I will go explore and figure that all out.)

1733696430486.png
 
lenaitch said:
You do that.
Click to expand...
It is how I eventually come to the thoughts I have on other things. I explore it and look at what could be done and then ask "why?". Inevitably, someone always tries to just shut me down instead of thinking seriously about it. Everything is about money and political capital. With enough of both, anything is possible. Case in point, the return of the Northlander. It is worth the political capital cost, and the overall costs are not enough of a deterrent.
 
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