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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

micheal_can said:
Via has not come out and said that. With the cancellation of the Northlander, and this, it appears that the governments hate Northern ON. I know that is not the case, but perception is everything with the government..
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With the significant portion of coast-to-coast ridership being tourism, perhaps it is a moot point, but I acknowledge that a better communications strategy would be beneficial. Conflation of VIA scheduling and the cancellation of the Northlander might be a bit of a stretch.
 
lenaitch said:
With the significant portion of coast-to-coast ridership being tourism, perhaps it is a moot point, but I acknowledge that a better communications strategy would be beneficial. Conflation of VIA scheduling and the cancellation of the Northlander might be a bit of a stretch.
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It is easy to say that if you have federal and provincially funded rail serving your area. I am not saying it is true. I am saying that people in Northern ON can't help but wonder about the coincidence. Some people are not willing to look more into it.
 
micheal_can said:
Instead of mocking, why not say something worth discussing?
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Because very little of what Greg Gormick writes is worth discussing.

lenaitch said:
He seems to have an audience although I'm not sure why. In this article he seems to conflate a return of VIA westward from Winnipeg as some kind of purposeful slight to Ontario, ignoring the fact of quarantine restrictions imposed by Manitoba.
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It should be noted that he posted 2 days before VIA's announcement - in a public forum, no less - that the Canadian was unequivocally dead. This article is likely him trying to make up for that gaffe.

Dan
 
I think there's a place for guys like Gormick. When he's actually putting forward a positive case, he's quite measured and reasonable, like with his "high performance rail" plan as an alternative to HSR that would serve smaller communities and save on infrastructure costs. His frustration is totally understandable and shared by people living in the province who have seen static or declining provincial support for transit while watching billions be heaped on the GTA in the hopes of enticing commuters out of their cars that's all carrot and no stick, for fear of either party losing one of the most entitled demographics in the province as a voter base. Meanwhile urban Toronto, rural areas, and regional centres don't get what they need. This is the monster that was created when the GTA was allowed to happen and I'm not sure anyone really had the means to cure it. But I'm certainly going to sympathize with people who criticize it. Underfunding services like transit only accelerates GTAification of the province and feeds the cancer when what is needed is chemotherapy, if there was only the courage, the political will, and the structural power to do so.

Gormick is one of the few people who can actually get a consistent platform to say openly negative things about upper levels of government and their treatment of underserved regions, negative things those levels of government absolutely deserve to have said about them. "Niceness" culture hasn't gotten us very far and just makes people easy to ignore. And if people think Gormick is acidic, there are plenty of people living along the Northlander corridor with plenty more to say about how they feel about the province and its promises.
 
The demand is there. It's just a matter of if the service will cater to enough people to ride it.

It requires you to be able to bring pets, and it has to run at times people want to travel. I think the weekend GO train to and from Barrie and the Wonderland/Vaughan mills Northlander bus is also a good start.
 
Apparently, Huron Central's previous application to the National Trade Corridors Fund was unsuccessful due to lack of provincial support. I have no idea what the province wants to see come out of this situation, though I find it amusing that the federal government seems to see this issue with more urgency than the provincial government. So much for keeping Ontario "Open for business".

www.woodstocksentinelreview.com

Province must step up to save Sudbury-Sault line, MPs say

Huron Central moves more than 13,000 carloads along this corridor every year. More than 3,400 direct and indirect jobs depend on the railway’s continued…
www.woodstocksentinelreview.com www.woodstocksentinelreview.com
 
HighIron905 said:
Apparently, Huron Central's previous application to the National Trade Corridors Fund was unsuccessful due to lack of provincial support. I have no idea what the province wants to see come out of this situation, though I find it amusing that the federal government seems to see this issue with more urgency than the provincial government. So much for keeping Ontario "Open for business".

www.woodstocksentinelreview.com

Province must step up to save Sudbury-Sault line, MPs say

Huron Central moves more than 13,000 carloads along this corridor every year. More than 3,400 direct and indirect jobs depend on the railway’s continued…
www.woodstocksentinelreview.com www.woodstocksentinelreview.com
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It seems to me that the province is willing to have some dialogue, but considering that they have revenue from the car loads and cash from their recent acquisition I don't see why they need a handout from the province.
Maybe it's better if they leave and a different carrier takes it over.
 
Bordercollie said:
It seems to me that the province is willing to have some dialogue, but considering that they have revenue from the car loads and cash from their recent acquisition I don't see why they need a handout from the province.
Maybe it's better if they leave and a different carrier takes it over.
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I don't disagree, though I am unsure of the condition of the line, so I can't comment on whether it actually needs rehab. But what I can say is that even if the province wishes to see the line change operators, which is totally doable and could be accomplished in a variety of ways, they should at least make that intention known now and be working with a new operator and other stakeholders to ensure a smooth transition. The way they are acting now creates uncertainty which benefits nobody. What you absolutely don't want is that the deadline comes, G&W pulls out and there is one or two weeks without service while everyone is frantically trying to get a new operator in place.
 
I think one of two things will happen.

Either G&W is holding out till the end and it will either work in their favor or they will loose the right to operate that line and someone else will take over.

They probably want to see if the government will cave and pony up the $$.

The government is not stupid. They won't have over the money unless it meets the criteria. There is too much at stake to let the rail line lie there not being used.
 
The government is in a fairly deep Covid-deficit. The optics of tossing public money at a US company that is otherwise profitable are less great than they usually would be. I don't know how rail lease arrangements work. It might be better to let G&W default then sign a new one with CP (assuming the government has intention to do anything). There are very few regular shippers on the line; it wouldn't surprise me that backroom phone calls are happening setting them up for a week or two of stockpiling before resumption of service with a new operator (again, if they plan to do anything).
 
lenaitch said:
The government is in a fairly deep Covid-deficit. The optics of tossing public money at a US company that is otherwise profitable are less great than they usually would be. I don't know how rail lease arrangements work. It might be better to let G&W default then sign a new one with CP (assuming the government has intention to do anything). There are very few regular shippers on the line; it wouldn't surprise me that backroom phone calls are happening setting them up for a week or two of stockpiling before resumption of service with a new operator (again, if they plan to do anything).
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The solution doesn't necessarily have to involve making a deal with G&W. There are a variety of routes this deal could take. There are operators interested in the line. Even if a deal was made with G&W, it isn't really actually giving money to them. It is investing money into the infrastructure which they use, which in reality is more like giving money to CP (however you feel about that).

With that said, I would prefer to see G&W gone. I feel like local management from a local firm like Ontario Northland or Diesel Electric would be better for the line. Either way, the optics of giving money to an "American" firm wouldn't be nearly as bad as the optics of letting the deadline pass without reaching a deal to see continued operation, throwing major northern employers producing vital supplies into chaos during a pandemic.
 
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My armchair thinking is that this will shut down as the government won't want to keep paying a private operator. Then it will be picked up by ONR, or something else within the government.
 
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