Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[Allandale25]

I can't remember but have the had to make any track (is longer sidings) or signalling adjustments south of North Bay to accommodate the return of The Northlander? Or does the current status work as is? cc @smallspy

 

[lenaitch]

Load the freight in Cochrane, the passengers in Timmins. The train could leave Timmins and park in Cochrane station, where the already assembled train is joined to the leading engines and passenger cars.

But yes, pragmatically if that's not an option, then bus.

The schedule times for the two trains don't line up and I see no indication of altering the schedule of the PBX. It is intended to be an up-and-back in one day.

I see no provision in the Business case for accommodating two trains at the as-yet-built Timmins station (runaround track, etc.) so passengers would have to wait for trains to be moved about - somehow.

The PBX would have to be reconfigured for power at both ends then completely re-marshalled in Cochrane; either that or a long reverse move to/from Porquis Junction (there is a wye at Kidd but I don't know if it serviceable and it doesn't look very long).

Their website says "rail"; we just don't know how.

 

[lenaitch]

I can't remember but have the had to make any track (is longer sidings) or signalling adjustments south of North Bay to accommodate the return of The Northlander? Or does the current status work as is? cc @smallspy

Per the Business Case:

A capacity study determined that rail corridor upgrades would enhance travel time and reliability of the Northeast Passenger Rail service. The study proposed a new siding north of Zephyr to facilitate train meets between Ontario Northland and CN trains. Preliminary cost estimates for this siding are included in the capital requirements of this business case, though future delivery will be determined though negotiations with CN.

No clue where that stands.

 

[Bordercollie]

The schedule times for the two trains don't line up and I see no indication of altering the schedule of the PBX. It is intended to be an up-and-back in one day.

I see no provision in the Business case for accommodating two trains at the as-yet-built Timmins station (runaround track, etc.) so passengers would have to wait for trains to be moved about - somehow.

The PBX would have to be reconfigured for power at both ends then completely re-marshalled in Cochrane; either that or a long reverse move to/from Porquis Junction (there is a wye at Kidd but I don't know if it serviceable and it doesn't look very long).

Their website says "rail"; we just don't know how.

It only needs to be a mixed consist from Cochrane right? Can't the Northlander trainset go from Timmins to Cochrane?

 

[lenaitch]

It only needs to be a mixed consist from Cochrane right? Can't the Northlander trainset go from Timmins to Cochrane?

It could, and that's what I'm speculating (only) will happen. Unless they plan on hiring turnaround cleaning/provisioning/pumpout/maintenance staff and facilities at Timmins (with the attendant supervision, supplies, etc.) along with shore power, all of that already exists in Cochrane, so might as well make it a revenue move.

 

[micheal_can]

I'd think the pragmatic solution is starting the Moosonee service from Timmins, deadheading the trains back and forth between Timmins and Cochrane at the start or end of each run.

I'd think this would benefit the Moosonee service as well, with Timmins having about 10 times the population of Cochrane, which doesn't even have scheduled airline connections.

One thing you are forgetting is how the train is staffed, they may run out of time to do that kind of move.

The other thing is if you have a car going on the train, it needs to get to Cochrane.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

The schedule times for the two trains don't line up and I see no indication of altering the schedule of the PBX. It is intended to be an up-and-back in one day.

I see no provision in the Business case for accommodating two trains at the as-yet-built Timmins station (runaround track, etc.) so passengers would have to wait for trains to be moved about - somehow.

The PBX would have to be reconfigured for power at both ends then completely re-marshalled in Cochrane; either that or a long reverse move to/from Porquis Junction (there is a wye at Kidd but I don't know if it serviceable and it doesn't look very long).

Their website says "rail"; we just don't know how.

The Northlander sets are going to stable in Cochrane. After a brief rest upon arrival at Timmins-Porcupine they'll change ends and go back through Porquis Junction taking the north leg of the Wye to Cochrane. Once in Cochrane the train will be reversed into the existing servicing yard, serviced, and parked until the next departure. These trainsets will not be used in anyway on the PBX.

 

[lenaitch]

The Northlander sets are going to stable in Cochrane. After a brief rest upon arrival at Timmins-Porcupine they'll change ends and go back through Porquis Junction taking the north leg of the Wye to Cochrane. Once in Cochrane the train will be reversed into the existing servicing yard, serviced, and parked until the next departure. These trainsets will not be used in anyway on the PBX.

It makes so much sense to me.

I don't think anybody was suggesting the Northlander sets would be used north of Cochrane, but rather, suggesting that the PBX could come down to Timmins to provide the 'rail connection'.

 

[micheal_can]

16 hours.
Passenger crew has a working time of 16 hours.
So, the PBX has to marshal, move to the Cochrane station, travel to Moosonee, marshal in Moosonee, move to the Moosonee station, travel to Cochrane, and marshal in Cochrane. All within 16 hours. That marshaling is where they hook up and disconnect to the flat cars with vehicles on it. As per their Schedule they have almost 14 hours of running time from when they leave Cochrane and arrive in Cochrane. If you figure another hour each way to Timmins, the crew run out of time. So, now they need to run 3 crews to cover this run; Timmins-Cochrane, Cochrane round trip, Cochrane - Timmins. That is sounding very expensive. That does not even take into the idea that the PBX carries vehicles. So, now they need to either hook up those flat cars in Cochrane, or build a new facility in Timmins. All I see with this idea is more and more dollar signs. And all of this would have been announced way back when.

The PBX is not a simple train. Due to what it carries it is a special train.

 

[Bordercollie]

16 hours.
Passenger crew has a working time of 16 hours.
So, the PBX has to marshal, move to the Cochrane station, travel to Moosonee, marshal in Moosonee, move to the Moosonee station, travel to Cochrane, and marshal in Cochrane. All within 16 hours. That marshaling is where they hook up and disconnect to the flat cars with vehicles on it. As per their Schedule they have almost 14 hours of running time from when they leave Cochrane and arrive in Cochrane. If you figure another hour each way to Timmins, the crew run out of time. So, now they need to run 3 crews to cover this run; Timmins-Cochrane, Cochrane round trip, Cochrane - Timmins. That is sounding very expensive. That does not even take into the idea that the PBX carries vehicles. So, now they need to either hook up those flat cars in Cochrane, or build a new facility in Timmins. All I see with this idea is more and more dollar signs. And all of this would have been announced way back when.

The PBX is not a simple train. Due to what it carries it is a special train.

They can use a different crew or a yard crew to do the switching move. This provides enough time to do the 14 hour run without running out of time.

 

[micheal_can]

They can use a different crew or a yard crew to do the switching move. This provides enough time to do the 14 hour run without running out of time.

They can, but as I point out, it would make that much more expensive to operate it. If the plan is for the Northlander to go to both, what would be the point of the PBX to go to Timmins?