kEiThZ
Superstar
It's about political visibility though. Fancy BRT like York Region. Visible change. Curbside bus lane. Taxpayer won't even notice.
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Ontario Budget Week
- Thread starter rbt
- Start date
It's about political visibility though. Fancy BRT like York Region. Visible change. Curbside bus lane. Taxpayer won't even notice.
rbt
Senior Member
Finished via new capital funding? Not really.
We'll obviously see some kind of service on Niagara, and the Barrie Line should support 30 minute frequencies soon, though actual all-day service may or may not appear.
There are at least a half dozen significant projects that can have shovels on the ground before the election though. PPP's are hard to cancel once the contractor has rolled in.
Gotta see construction tenders going out soon though. Finch should be tendered this year for a 2017 construction start.
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mdrejhon
Senior Member
Is this why drum118 went to the stations to see if they could be lengthened in short order?
I wonder.
Say, 4-car trains and low fares. A bit undersized for peak-period public transit, but a low-lying apple doable by 2018 election before a further upsizing later.
Using the existing UPX trains (but lengthened to 4 coaches) could be an incremental step prior to RER EMU trains with an express/allstop plan, where express still fits 25min-every-15min. And later transfer of the service to one of the regular tracks at Union, when electrifying to longer trains. Add the infill stations later for the allstops. Every other train down to Bramalea, versus to Pearson (each consecutive train takes turns).
The spur will be a good difficult question, but there are also lightweight EMUs with good bend radii and you can just berth the front few coaches of the train if the Pearson station isn't lengthened. Quick-fix type stuff... A bit hacky but theoretically workable, since not everyone is going to the airport anyway.
Lengthening the high platforms at Bloor/Weston is probably an easier challenge than redoing Pearson/Union. In theory, you could initially skip lengthening Pearson station -- you just keep the doors of the 4th coach closed, and passengers can easily walk between coaches. (Put airport logo on the specific doors to help wayfinding which coaches opens door at Pearson -- to reduce number of experienced Pearson travellers sitting in the wrong coach). I would imagine most transit (non-airport) users would be disembarking at either Bloor TTC or Weston.
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44 North
Senior Member
I'm not thinking anything elaborate or costly, so no new infrastructure would be needed. Just rebranding (e.g "GO-Plus", "GO-Pearson", etc), a few cans of paint, then a new ribbon-cutting ceremony and photo-op. But the majority of money will go to an ad campaign (one timed and coordinated in the lead up to the election). Think Wynne jogging along a rural road, with her voice over talking about how they listened to the public, are working to improve Ontario, are connecting and restoring the region...yadda yadda, then a cut to a shiny freshly painted train. A few hundred thousand dollars is all that's needed, which is a write-off to them.
Probably belongs in the UPX thread, but last night after I posted about painting the trains Liberal red I ended up wanting to see how that would look. Maybe it was because I was half asleep at the time, but I'd say it looks pretty sharp. Or at least somewhat better than the two tone sludgy greens of the current UPX livery.
Attachments
Palma
Senior Member
Or brand as SmartTrack and red is TTC colour so will make them happy especially is TTC fare
crs1026
Superstar
I would prefer something that gets them away from running in the red, rather than something that makes that so. ;-)
- Giving the Newmarket Sub its own track(s) east of Parkdale must be close to shovel ready.
- Bloor fourth track platform isn't a big design job.
- The fourth platform at Weston Station (which requires some new underground passageways) is likely a shovel ready project.
That would let you put in the fourth track Strachan to Islington.
I wonder if the 401 tunnel can be advanced. That gives you ability to add the fourth track Islington to Wice, and do the new Etobicoke North station (although the station location is yet TBD.)
Additional track Wice to Halwest is doable now, although the shoofly at Torbram will take a while longer.
Those projects would give you RER to Bramalea, 15 minute 2WAD.
How many millions apart are GO and CN over the Halwest - Brampton segment? Perhaps we should just swallow hard and get on with it. That gives you Brampton and Mount Pleasant on 15-minute 2WAD.
- Paul
- Giving the Newmarket Sub its own track(s) east of Parkdale must be close to shovel ready.
- Bloor fourth track platform isn't a big design job.
- The fourth platform at Weston Station (which requires some new underground passageways) is likely a shovel ready project.
That would let you put in the fourth track Strachan to Islington.
I wonder if the 401 tunnel can be advanced. That gives you ability to add the fourth track Islington to Wice, and do the new Etobicoke North station (although the station location is yet TBD.)
Additional track Wice to Halwest is doable now, although the shoofly at Torbram will take a while longer.
Those projects would give you RER to Bramalea, 15 minute 2WAD.
How many millions apart are GO and CN over the Halwest - Brampton segment? Perhaps we should just swallow hard and get on with it. That gives you Brampton and Mount Pleasant on 15-minute 2WAD.
- Paul
mdrejhon
Senior Member
TOareaFan
Superstar
I would not be surprised if CN is not really talking and not really interested in selling. They have done (I suspect) what they set out to do....sold off the parts of the corridor not as crucial to their operations, received millions of dollars, retained the same running rights they had in those corridors.....and are holding on to the part they want/need. I bet when they sit back and think about it they are mighty pleased!That's the six million dollar question.
Or is it six billion?
crs1026
Superstar
I could see their cooperating with ML provided they retain a 2-track ROW with no electrified clearance issues throughout. The improvements at Georgetown have the 3rd track roughed in, so they must have foreseen some further construction. Tripling the stretch through Brampton would likely be acceptable.
But yeah, it's a case of sitting back and waiting for ML to get impatient and raise the offering price. Again. I'm sure they are smiling, it can only get better for CN.
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
I have to say; as someone who is non-partisan, and not rigidly ideological, this is one of the more disappointing budgets I've seen.
The only thing worse might the sales job by the Finance Minister........err game show host, who regurgitates talking points like no ones business.
Whether one is fiscally conservative; or inclined to somewhat higher taxes AND social spending, this budget manages to disappoint.
Cut the drive-clean fee; but not the program, which by all accounts is entirely ineffectual.
Don't roll back corporate largesse (w/taxpayer money).
Don't reduce even one regressive tax, even a little.
While continuing to grow the debt.
At the same time, no real new investments in infrastructure.
No move to expand coverage of prescription drugs, even to low-income earners. A very modest move to do so for the lowest income seniors; but at the cost of raising the fees for seniors who make as little as $20,000 per year, by more than 70%
A profound display of cowardice in not moving to charge to GO transit parking, not moving forward on tolls, no raising the sales tax or reducing the huge freebie to small businesses in Ontario.
No matter your politics, a waste of paper.
Sad.
The only thing worse might the sales job by the Finance Minister........err game show host, who regurgitates talking points like no ones business.
Whether one is fiscally conservative; or inclined to somewhat higher taxes AND social spending, this budget manages to disappoint.
Cut the drive-clean fee; but not the program, which by all accounts is entirely ineffectual.
Don't roll back corporate largesse (w/taxpayer money).
Don't reduce even one regressive tax, even a little.
While continuing to grow the debt.
At the same time, no real new investments in infrastructure.
No move to expand coverage of prescription drugs, even to low-income earners. A very modest move to do so for the lowest income seniors; but at the cost of raising the fees for seniors who make as little as $20,000 per year, by more than 70%
A profound display of cowardice in not moving to charge to GO transit parking, not moving forward on tolls, no raising the sales tax or reducing the huge freebie to small businesses in Ontario.
No matter your politics, a waste of paper.
Sad.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Cut the drive clean fee? sure, I guess. Hardly a major issue though. Its not a "tax grab" anymore at least.
Don't roll back on corporate largesse? Again, I guess, but it was a major policy point in their election campaign, its hardly surprising.
Don't reduce one regressive tax.. Does tuition count? the whole OSAP program has been entirely modernized to actually function properly, and is far better at supporting low income families.
No new investments in infrastructure.. New widenings of the 417 and 400 are the only formally "new" projects, but the province dropped 36 billion last year and is working out the details for more next year.. you expect just a rain of infrastructure spending every year into infinity?
Prescription drugs.. not really on the agenda anywhere. Hardly surprising, and such a policy would be hugely expensive. You complain about debt on line then complain about the lack of a new multi billion dollar program the next.
Go transit parking fees - politically unpopular and something that wouldn't be announced this year anyway, timing is everything and everything is timing, and GO is currently reviewing their parking strategies anyway. may as well wait until that study is done.
Tolls - don't HOT lanes count? Again, full on road tolls would be hugely unpopular and largely a global first, no major city globally tolls its entire freeway system as far as I know, especially not decades after construction. Want to commit political suicide? increase the cost of living dramatically for 90% of voters in your swing ridings.
Sales taxes etc.. again, complaints about budget deficits, then complaints about lack of tax cuts
Saving the debt for last. Its not like the province just tosses all their deficit money in a hole every year, that is a structural deficit. You can't just fix it in a year short of mega cuts or tax hikes that would destroy an economy. You make small progress towards it, which they have been. Debt is slated to stop going up starting next year, as promised.
This is indeed a very "simple" budget with little in changes, the only radical one really being OSAP changes, but nobody expected otherwise. The liberals promised in the election a slow, minimally painful line to a balance budget. This means little in the way of goodies or tax cuts.. keep things the way they are and let the budget dig itself out of the hole through underlying economic growth. This is the sort of thing required to slay the deficit in a responsible manner. Is it exciting, no. Is it responsible (well, for the political realm), yes.
Don't roll back on corporate largesse? Again, I guess, but it was a major policy point in their election campaign, its hardly surprising.
Don't reduce one regressive tax.. Does tuition count? the whole OSAP program has been entirely modernized to actually function properly, and is far better at supporting low income families.
No new investments in infrastructure.. New widenings of the 417 and 400 are the only formally "new" projects, but the province dropped 36 billion last year and is working out the details for more next year.. you expect just a rain of infrastructure spending every year into infinity?
Prescription drugs.. not really on the agenda anywhere. Hardly surprising, and such a policy would be hugely expensive. You complain about debt on line then complain about the lack of a new multi billion dollar program the next.
Go transit parking fees - politically unpopular and something that wouldn't be announced this year anyway, timing is everything and everything is timing, and GO is currently reviewing their parking strategies anyway. may as well wait until that study is done.
Tolls - don't HOT lanes count? Again, full on road tolls would be hugely unpopular and largely a global first, no major city globally tolls its entire freeway system as far as I know, especially not decades after construction. Want to commit political suicide? increase the cost of living dramatically for 90% of voters in your swing ridings.
Sales taxes etc.. again, complaints about budget deficits, then complaints about lack of tax cuts
Saving the debt for last. Its not like the province just tosses all their deficit money in a hole every year, that is a structural deficit. You can't just fix it in a year short of mega cuts or tax hikes that would destroy an economy. You make small progress towards it, which they have been. Debt is slated to stop going up starting next year, as promised.
This is indeed a very "simple" budget with little in changes, the only radical one really being OSAP changes, but nobody expected otherwise. The liberals promised in the election a slow, minimally painful line to a balance budget. This means little in the way of goodies or tax cuts.. keep things the way they are and let the budget dig itself out of the hole through underlying economic growth. This is the sort of thing required to slay the deficit in a responsible manner. Is it exciting, no. Is it responsible (well, for the political realm), yes.
ottbike
Active Member
There are certain projects that are not quite ready for formal funding, but will be soon (e.g. Ottawa's Stage 2 LRT). Money will be there in the 2017 budget, or 2018 budget at the very latest once Ottawa requests it.
CodeMonkey
Active Member
Alright, since this is in the Transportation and Infrastructure forums for some reason I will first say why no new money in infrastructure or transit is because we're still building or planning transit and infrastructure from previous budgets, so it made no sense to create new ones.
I wasn't surprised they didn't move forward with tolls, they don't have enough popularity to pull off something like that without having a backlash not seen since Bob Rae and the NDP era. Charging for GO transit parking would be counter productive, since you want people to leave their cars and take the train. Making people pay would only encourage them to skip GO and drive to work or wherever.
As for debt isn't much as a threat as some media outlets lead you to believe, majority of Ontario's debt is domestically owned, and with low interest rates its not a bad time to take on debt and won't cost a lot in the long term to pay back when money starts flowing again. But costs are rising in areas like healthcare because of our aging baby boomer population, and will eventually come down as the majority of them.... shuffle off this mortal coil.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The deficit is now lower than economic growth anyway, which means our debt to GDP ratio has flatlined.. which is really the key metric as GDP is the measure on the governments ability to pay back. Believe it or not having a balanced budget actually improves finances as economic growth means your debt shrinks when compared to your revenues.
nfitz
Superstar
This year's deficit drops from $7.5 billion in the previous budget to $5.7 billion. Next year's deficit drops from that forecast in the previous budget to $4.3 billion. And after that it's balanced.
Surely that shrinks the total debt from the total in the previous budget - rather than growing it. Given the dire economic times, I'd say that is better than one would have anticipated.