News   Oct 31, 2024
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OneCity Plan

No plan will make every person happy (except for our own plans of course!) but this one is pretty decent. I think the Etobicoke and Scarborough Express lines would be so far out in this plan's schedule that they'd be the next generation's mythical DRL. But if all parties bought into this plan -- taxpayers and all levels of government -- we'd have at least get some of it underway before the next time our politicians decided to bring everything to a halt again.
 
I am also a bit concerned over the wording of the Don Mills line.. Are we talking about a N-S line that ends at Queen or is it going to go downtown?
It's simply the downtown relief line, renamed, so as it doesn't sound like it's downtown getting more transit.
 
I've got Queen's One Vision playing in my mind.

Could this be council's new sing-along?

No hate no fight
Just excitation
All through the night
It's a celebration
...
One voice, one hope
One real decision?

(Thinking that Rob Ford can close the song off with the classic ending, " just gimme gimme gimme/fried chicken!")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4UNoECibYk
 
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the don mills express line seems to end at queen + yonge, I was hoping it would at least go to spadina...

though overall, this proposal seems stellar. I would be interested in seeing exactly what ends up happening with the rail corridor service. I would like to see it run by GO with s-bahn style service.
 
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the don mills express line seems to end at queen + yonge, I was hoping it would at least go to spadina...

Clever politics. Metrolinx has an active interest in taking the DRL to Bathurst & Front due to Union Station capacity constraints.

The city offering to fund it to Queen & Yonge could inspire Metrolinx to take it the rest of the way rather than build double-height tunnels for GO trains, which is their only real alternative.
 
Are we really going to play the "why not LRT" game? If this OneCity plan is now suggesting a subway instead of LRT for the SRT route up to Sheppard then an argument for a subway on Sheppard is valid. The Sheppard Subway had decades of planning with it (not to mention sunk costs on the existing portion) so I don't find myself without cause for continuing my support for a line that has a longer history of planning than the LRT line.

Then there's the debate over Sheppard from earlier this year. Much of the talk was over how to play for it and Ford was terrible at answering this question. Now all of a sudden it's all the rage on council to talking about ways to raise funds to pay for transit. Yet, no one wants to open the issue again. The battle was won by the LRT side but screw compromise now that it's won. I can quote DeBaermaker who said during the lead up to the council Sheppard vote at a public debate "I would vote for the Sheppard subway tomorrow if there was funding." Clearly this was an outright lie. Sintz too countlessly said there was no money so there was no point in the debate.

If I recall the discussions from earlier this year, there is no point in proposing additional cost transit unless it is funded. Also, politicians should not be dictating where transit lines should go and what technology should be used. The transit experts clearly said that Transit City Phase 1 and 2 are the priorities.

It now appears that both of these are being broken by the very people who made those claims and are being echoed by many on this forum.
 
This is not very well thought out, hence the fact that I thought that this was an April Fool's joke at first. It seems to be nothing but a laundry list of defunct proposed transit projects. If we want City Council to actually approve this (and especially to get the right, including Rob Ford, on board):

- Sheppard west of McCowan needs to be a subway. East of McCowan, LRT makes more sense, and combined with the Scarborough-Malvern LRT would be useful.
- Don Mills needs to be a subway, and I think that a subway along Don Mills including north of Eglinton could easily be the busiest of all the lines. It would certainly outperform the Spadina subway north of St. Clair for sure.
- Eglinton can probably make do with a LRT, but needs to be a high capacity LRT like the Calgary/Edmonton system, and absolutely has to be grade separated between Laird and Don Mills. This will maximize its capacity, since this will be a very busy line.
- Replacing Scarborough RT with subway is too expensive. Overhauling the existing Scarborough RT is perfectly adequate (albeit requiring a transfer). If the Stouffville line is double tracked and gets high frequency service, there is no need for a Scarborough subway as well, too much redundant capacity.
- There should be high frequency GO trains on Lakeshore and Milton/CP line as part of this plan, these are very important.
- Get rid of the Zoo LRT. This is a waste of money.

Also getting money from Ottawa and Queen's Park will not happen due to the large budget deficits. If we want money from them, there will have to be a referendum on higher taxes (either a sales tax or road tolls). Finally, this plan would have a much better chance of passing if transit improvements for the 905 are included. These include high frequency GO service on all lines, the Hurontario LRT, the Yonge subway extension north of Steeles, replacing the Mississauga BRT with LRT between Renforth/Eglinton and Square One, and various bus improvement projects.
 
Why is the expansion of Yonge from Finch to Steeles so expensive? It's a straight run on a 6 lane road very flat and no visible obstructions.
It looks half as long as the extension of Sheppard from Yonge to Downsview but the cost is nearly the same?
2km for 1.3 Billion?
Compare that to 4.5km for $1.54B for sheppard.
 
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What's the benefit of extending the B-D to Sheppard when the SRT conversion is already going to be grade separated? Like I can see an argument that a surface LRT would provide a lower quality of service than a subway, but a grade separated LRT and subway are basically identical except for capacity. Is that really worth an extra 484 million? That money could go a long way towards other projects.
 
@jaycola

because the steels station will include a 25 bay underground bus shelter...

the extension of the bloor line to STC will be to eliminate the transfer from the LRT, and to shut up the Scarboroughians calling for a subway.
 
Nobody has really touched upon the elephant in the room.. This is entirely reliant on the Queen's Park and Ottawa picking up a third each. $10 billion from Queen's Park I could see, but $10 billion from Ottawa? Let's get real here.

Today it would be very difficult, but if we see an NDP government come 2015 (and recent polls show them in the lead if an election was held today) it could very well be a reality. Even if they get 20billion of the funding secured (10 from QP and 10 from the city) they can get things moving before then with hopes that a new government jumps on board (which may be risky but I'd rather a $20b incomplete plan than none at all).
 

The money part is a joke. They want to finance $30 billion with $272 million a year, to start at reassessment in 2016 or 2020. They want funds in place in time to make the SRT upgrade unnecessary. There's not even a provision for the new property tax money to escalate with inflation over time. Even with federal and provincial support this is not enough money and not soon enough to make this a real plan I think.

But it is a start of the grownup conversation that Ford didn't want to have.
 
Honestly any plan that includes 3 subway extensions and 1 brand new subway line gets my blessing.

Eliminate the useless transfer at Kennedy? Check
Extend Sheppard (albeit westward)? Check
DRL (albeit renamed Don Mills Express)? Check
Extend Yonge? Check

I also think the Etobicoke and Scarborough Express lines are very important, though I'm not sure if they really should be TTC's, but if TTC takes the lead on them, go for it. GO is dragging its feet on these types of lines, so let the TTC run with it.

Obviously the Sheppard East LRT I considered less than ideal. But it looks like it'll be pretty long, so in the future if the western portion of it is pretty busy they can build subway underneath up to STC. Eventually.

The Eglinton line should definitely reach the airport, and if they link it up with the Finch LRT that's cool too.

So overall I think this is a good, doable plan.

EDIT: Not sure if anyone has posted the link to the plan, but here it is: http://onecitytransitplan.com/
 
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Sign me up. I'll gladly pay $180 per year for 4 years to have this built. My one concern is the 30 year timeline. If all of these lines aren't under construction within the next 10 years they aren't going to get built at all.
 
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