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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

So I saw a report on City TV tonight that video poker has started up at Woodbine. And has been open for nearly two months now - and no-one at City Hall even knew about it
 
One thing that I haven’t seen discussed yet are the pros-and-cons of having one big casino versus a casino district with a number of smaller casinos. One big casino can be built anywhere (Woodbine, the Zoo, Downsview) and would be pretty much disconnected from life in the rest of the city no matter where it’s located. A casino district, with a number of smaller casinos each limited in size, would integrate much better with city life and would encourage the type of tourism that would benefit the larger community.

I think if you are just going to allow one big casino then it should NOT be located downtown. If you’re going to allow casinos downtown they should be configured as a number of smaller casinos in a casino district, notwithstanding the fact that finding a location for a casino district might be a bigger challenge than finding a location for one big casino.
 
Toronto Star: Payout for downtown casino? Just $50 million to $100 million, OLG says

The City of Toronto has been told to expect a provincial hosting fee of $50 million to $100 million per year for a downtown casino-resort — significantly less than a consultant’s estimate hailed by casino proponents.

Tony Bitonti, spokesman for Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp., confirmed the estimate of up to $100 million appearing in city materials prepared for public consultations on a casino, which include public meetings that start next week.

The sinking revenue estimate could make the high-stakes proposal for a downtown casino a tougher sell when council has final say in April.

Mayor Rob Ford’s executive committee approved the consultations in November, after receiving a city-commissioned Ernst & Young report speculating that the province might fork over up to $168 million a year.

The committee directed the city manager to try to refine the figure before public consultations. Ford, however, was clearly buoyed by the consultant’s prediction that the fee, plus increased property taxes, could flood more than $200 million a year into city coffers.

He told reporters in November: “I’ve always said I will support a casino if it is creating good-paying jobs, and the numbers that I’m seeing, if it is going to bring in $200 million a year, absolutely I’m voting for it.”
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$100 million for the City every year isn't exactly just a drop in the bucket. $100 million a year could pay for a heck of a lot of infrastructure.

And there's nothing stopping the Province from investing their share of the profits into Toronto infrastructure projects as well.
 
gweed123 said:
$100 million for the City every year isn't exactly just a drop in the bucket. $100 million a year could pay for a heck of a lot of infrastructure.

And there's nothing stopping the Province from investing their share of the profits into Toronto infrastructure projects as well.
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I agree, also dont know why the Toronto Star is so against and negative of a downtown Casino:confused:
 
Automation Gallery said:
I agree, also dont know why the Toronto Star is so against and negative of a downtown Casino:confused:
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I certainly understand the arguments against building a casino (increased crime, especially tough on those with addictions and those living in poverty, etc), but I think in general anti-casino people are very selective in the cases that they use in order to highlight their opposition.

They love to point to places like Atlantic City, Windsor, Detroit, etc, and highlight the poverty and crime in those areas. The thing that they ignore however is that correlation does not imply causation. All of those places weren't exactly Utopias before the casinos got there. You could in fact make the argument that those places would be even worse off without the casinos, because they would lose the tourist dollars and valuable employment positions.

The casino over in Hull (across the river from Ottawa) has had a pretty positive effect on the surrounding area. The attached hotel and conference centre has attracted some pretty decent events. The casino in Pittsburgh has been a pretty nice anchor for the redevelopment of the North Shore area.

I actually attended a local meeting in Pittsburgh on the casino (it was in the public consultation phase at the time) as part of a school trip, and I heard all of the arguments that are now being brought up in Toronto. Many of their concerns never materialized. Partially because they never really existed in the first place, and partially because they were effectively mitigated (either through policy measures, through urban planning/design measures, or through enforcement measures).

The anti-casino crowd can cherry pick case studies all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that if the area was in good health before the casino, chances are it will be in just as good or better health after the casino is built. If it was a 'neglected' area before the casino, it'll probably stay that way after.
 
I'm agnostic about a lot of things, casino included. I don't trust that carpetbagger Paul Godfrey and I am suspicious of the economic benefits that a casino will bring. Godfrey's oversold Toronto before - case in point, Skydome.

That said, bringing Detroit up doesn't matter. The casinos were never a cause of Detroit's current state (more of a reaction to the casino across the river), and they came only in the last 15 years or so. Atlantic City has been a basketcase for a long time, New Jersey decided to be a guinea pig for casino operations outside Vegas to try to revitalize a derelict AC. AC is still derelict.
 
I wonder what the anti-Toronto Casino people have to say about on-line betting thats about to flog Ontario

According to Dwight Duncan.........Online gambling, a recent expansion proposed by the OLG, is going forward because Ontarians already spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on Internet gaming sites based off shore.
Gee, i bet these same people are OK with that:confused:
 
PinkLucy said:
I'm opposed to gambling in general, so no, I'm not ok with that actually.
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So because you're against it means that you should be able to deny it to others? I happen to enjoy occasionally going to a casino and playing some blackjack.

I happen to be against going to uptight douchy nightclubs, but that doesn't mean I actively try to prevent new ones from being built, or from discouraging people to go them.
 
I am neither for or against a Casino being established in Toronto. I have never visited a Casino, not on moral grounds, because I was more interested in other things when in convenient range of one.

I am not an expert in all this stuff but it appears to me that the Casino operators (note the plural) have a lot more at stake than the City in this equation. Let's inform them that we are open to offers from operators that would like to open up shop in Toronto. Toronto could be a very profitable location for their industry, 4 million people within an hour or so in a relatively properous area. Unlike a manufacturer looking to locate here property tax rates and a trained work force mean nothing. A large pool of affluent gamblers does.

Let's suggest that we don't want one Casino, we want multiple Casinos or none at all and are willing to set aside an area for them to develope. The area offered should be an addition to our tax base not a subtraction as the Exhibition or other already developed areas would be.
 
gweed123 said:
So because you're against it means that you should be able to deny it to others? I happen to enjoy occasionally going to a casino and playing some blackjack.

I happen to be against going to uptight douchy nightclubs, but that doesn't mean I actively try to prevent new ones from being built, or from discouraging people to go them.
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I was responding to AG's contention that those of us who didn't want a casino downtown would support offshore internet sites -- I responded that I don't support gambling in any form so my opposition isn't a NIMBY thing.
 
Automation Gallery said:
I wonder what the anti-Toronto Casino people have to say about on-line betting thats about to flog Ontario

According to Dwight Duncan.........Online gambling, a recent expansion proposed by the OLG, is going forward because Ontarians already spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on Internet gaming sites based off shore.
Gee, i bet these same people are OK with that:confused:
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I'm not okay with that. But if I had to chose between having a casino in Toronto and offshore gambling sites, I'd chose the latter.
 
PinkLucy said:
I was responding to AG's contention that those of us who didn't want a casino downtown would support offshore internet sites -- I responded that I don't support gambling in any form so my opposition isn't a NIMBY thing.
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Fair enough, I didn't quite see the context there. But let me ask you this then: would you actively campaign against building a casino in Toronto? Or at the very least vote against it should there be a referendum on it?
 
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