Officer Down (Sgt. Ryan Russell)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Adm. Beez:

One could argue that much of the prison population that we might call pure evil is mentally ill. Paul Bernardo, Russell Williams, etc. are in jail because their mental state, that of sociopaths and psychopaths led them to be evil. Of course they understood their actions, and are in jail for good reason. Can we call pure evil a mental illness, or perhaps just a social illness?

I don't think you can put pure evil as a subset of mental illness. The former requires an understanding of the consequences of one's actions and the deliberate choice at every juncture to engage in that action in spite of that understanding. Predisposition does not equate to an erosion of agency, much less dictating the finality of outcome.

AoD

 

[TrickyRicky]

I think "evil" if you want to use this term must be associated with an action. Ironically, given the subject matter and people's reactions to it I would say vengeance or the desire for vengeance is an evil act.

Mental illness is a mental state. Your brain is ill when say you are suffering from a major depression

Behavioural pre-dispositions like psychopathy I think are neither evil nor mental illness. That is because I think there is some compelling evidence to suggest that deviant behaviours , however unacceptable in our contemporary society, exist because they are successful evolutionary strategies. Being highly empathetic or compassionate is a winning evolutionary strategy, but so is having almost no feelings and no compassion. Likely most of the population falls in-between, we are neither highly empathetic and compassionate nor unfeeling and lacking compassion.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think "evil" if you want to use this term must be associated with an action. Ironically, given the subject matter and people's reactions to it I would say vengeance or the desire for vengeance is an evil act.

These two sentences appear to be contradictory. You say that the term evil is associated with an action, but then you say the desire for vengeance is evil. Desire is not act, therefore desire for vengeance is not an evil act.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yup. Well put. I don't disagree with your assessment.

And hey, if 3 shrinks found him crazy, who am I to question that he isn't. I just on a gut level look at the guy and think, nope you knew what you were doing, what you did was crazy, but you ain't crazy. Time to go to jail for a long time.

This is the only part of the verdict (as reported) that I struggled with. The CTV news report last night noted that 8 "shrinks" gave evidence....3 concluded he was not criminally responsible and 5 said he was. If that is the case, then it puts the jury (who would not be, likely, very well equipped in these matters) deciding which of the "expert witnesses" to give more credence to.

It made me wonder if the right thing to do in cases being decided on criminal responsibility to have the expert witnesses (presented by both sides) have a sort of panel discussion and only present to the jury their "group think" on the matter.

Jury duty is tough (as anyone who has done it will attest) and having a jury look at the findings of 8 separate experts in this matter must have been particularly difficult.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I do wonder if these instances would have been avoided had we not decided in 1987 to close all the mental institutions. A good article is here http://www.frontenacnews.ca/2009/09-11_mar_19/community_living_09-11.html

While the idea of Community Living seems the more compassionate and morally righteous route over forcing folks who have done nothing wrong into Bedlam-like institutions; the reality for many is homelessness, prison and a poor life.

Like many government initiatives, we've gone only half way. We closed the asylums, but didn't guarantee housing and services for the mentally ill left in the community.

 

[Voltz]

I do wonder if these instances would have been avoided had we not decided in 1987 to close all the mental institutions. A good article is here http://www.frontenacnews.ca/2009/09-11_mar_19/community_living_09-11.html

While the idea of Community Living seems the more compassionate and morally righteous route over forcing folks who have done nothing wrong into Bedlam-like institutions; the reality for many is homelessness, prison and a poor life.

Like many government initiatives, we've gone only half way. We closed the asylums, but didn't guarantee housing and services for the mentally ill left in the community.

I think that is a cause of many issues today with the mentally ill, including many incidences where a mentally ill person gets into a confrontation with the police and ends up getting shot.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Looks like Kashkar is on the path to getting out http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/21/richard_kachkars_mysterious_return_to_normal_dimanno.html