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O-Train and Something New

Re: No Funding Yet

The City Centre is a really interesting building - it built with the intent of being an intermodal freight building. Nearby is the former OCR carbarns.

>> Are they on Champaign St.?
>>You can still see where the tracks used to go under the Queensway and over to the EMR campus on Booth St. Let us not forget that the Queensway used to be one of the East-West trackage in Ottawa.

I really think things are being messed around with there. I also thought the best expansion would have been Hull to Airport, keep it as diesel or electrify it, since planners still are still committed to the Transitway and through bus service through the core (and the congestion of all those green express routes). The O-Train going through downtown really has a lousy eastern terminus - Mackenzie King. It would have been more logical to extend it to U of Ottawa, and then even Hurdman, and reduce the number of buses running through Albert and Slater along with the trains.

>> I think you are right. I think $$ prevents it from being extended to Hurdman.

It probably could have been feasible to close the O-Train over a summer (May-August), and on weekends March-November of one year to get the construction (double tracking) complete through the current O-Train route, then if necessary close it again the summer after that to install the wiring for electrification if there's not enough time.

>> Yup!

The Tunnel under Dow's Lake will remain single track, correct?

>>Double track all the way to Barhaven.
 
Re: No Funding Yet

The NCC really screwed Ottawa up with its transit. Ottawa was not in a hurry to abandon its streetcar routes it had in the 1950s, from what I understand, but the NCC wanted to remove the tracks and overhead wiring that they deemed ugly. Just like railways coming anywhere near the downtown core, so passenger trains are out in the middle of nowhere. Not that an elevated freeway would be just as ugly and more destructive than the tracks it replaced, of course.

The OCR had a beautiful line that ran out to Brittania, which was mostly in a ROW - they could have kept and expanded on that instead of the transitway.

Are they on Champaign St?

That's it. I had a tour of the O-Train line and the Ottawa Union Station from David Jeanes at T2000 last fall. I learned a lot from him about Ottawa's transportation history - really interesting stuff.
 
Re: No Funding Yet

Mr. Ottawa, re-zoning:

That zoning has existing for decades. In the eighties there was a proposal to build 3x25 story office towers.

I was making reference to that. Previously the area was zoned light industrial/commercial (or something to that effect. The city passed a zoning amendment around that area more recently. I can't recall what it was for specifically, but it was intensification-friendly.


spmarshall,

The NCC Greber plan was an act of love for the automobile. The parkways are a testament to this. The loss of the streetcar looks so incredibly short-sighted in light of the struggle to get the O-Train up and running.
 
Re: No Funding Yet

The NCC really screwed Ottawa up with its transit. Ottawa was not in a hurry to abandon its streetcar routes it had in the 1950s, from what I understand, but the NCC wanted to remove the tracks and overhead wiring that they deemed ugly. Just like railways coming anywhere near the downtown core, so passenger trains are out in the middle of nowhere. Not that an elevated freeway would be just as ugly and more destructive than the tracks it replaced, of course.

>> You are right. As mentioned above, the Greber plan is a product of its time.

The OCR had a beautiful line that ran out to Brittania, which was mostly in a ROW - they could have kept and expanded on that instead of the transitway.

>>The existing transitway uses this right of way along Scott St. from Bayview Ave. to Dominon Stn at the Ottawa River Parkway. The rest of the right of way is in tact and is a linear park that is between Byron and Richmond Rds. It is still designated as a Transit RoW, not a park.

That's it. I had a tour of the O-Train line and the Ottawa Union Station from David Jeanes at T2000 last fall. I learned a lot from him about Ottawa's transportation history - really interesting stuff.

>> David is a very smart man. We can thank his efforts for the O-Train. That said, he does not accept other opinions well. I remember talking with him about his proposal to put the O-Train down the Sparks St. Mall. He became red faced and threw insults at me. I guess you have to accept the insanity as well as the genius. We are lucky to have hims so interested in our city's development.
 
Re: No Funding Yet

FM: I believe the O-Train project has allready secured funding.

As I suspected, the Ottawa LRT project does not have provincial funding secured yet and I can imagine it doesn't have federal funding either.

Yesterday during question period, the PC members from the Ottawa Region questioned the Premier and the Liberals as to why they didn't include the $200 million for the Ottawa LRT in the year's budget?

The Premier didn't answer the question directly and instead pointed out they gave Ottawa $30 million for new buses this year and how the previous government downloaded everything onto the city of Ottawa.

Louroz
 
Re: No Funding Yet

FM,

I did not read that. I thought that I had read the city had a commitment from both. But, what does a commitment mean?

It would be very unusual for the city to put our an RFP to industry without secured funding. They open themselves up to lawsuites. Each of the six bidders will spend millions on the RFP response. My company can spend 500,000 on a small RFP resonse. Apparently the Cities RFP has many, many mandatory requirements, thus increasing the costs to respond to the RFP.

If the City placed the RFP on MERX it must follow NAFTA rules. Both MERX and NAFTA requires that an RFP be "real" which means committed funding. The City of Ottawa is using MERX more and more to diseminate its RFPs. The GoC uses it exlusively.

RFP winners will be announced in May with contract signing in the summer. Shovels in the fall.
 
MOU Signed

From the City of Ottawa website:


At a public ceremony held Monday 9 May 05, Canada, Ontario and the City of Ottawa announced the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) wherein both Canada and Ontario reaffirmed their commitment of up to $200M each toward the implementation of the North-South Light Rail Project in Ottawa.

Selection of preferred private sector consortium
Spring 06

Execution of project agreements
Summer 06

Execution of contribution agreements with Canada and Ontario
Summer 06


Construction start
Summer 06

Construction completion - in service
Fall 09

An MOU has been signed, which is good as gold imo, however, it's intresting that the Liberals didn't add the $200 million commitment to Ottawa's project to this year's budget?

Louroz
 
Re: MOU Signed

These gov'ts are trying to satisfy everyone with $$. Limited resources and infinit demand. So they resort to playing financial games.

The Truth is out there, Jerry!!
 
Re: MOU Signed

By the way, Ottawa is going with the Siemens trains.
 
Re: MOU Signed

It will be interesting to see what the trains look like. You can make them look like anything with cowlings but the ones they supplied Edmonton, Calgary, St Jose et al were very boxy.
 
Re: MOU Signed

The Siemens trains are smaller and lighter than the present diesel-powered O-Train, and have a top speed of about 70 kph. This has already generated protest that these vehicles will be useless to go to Gatineau or to the airport. I find this to be a rather curious criticism.

In my opinion, I think these trains are really streetcars, and should be implemented as such. Ottawa South councillor Clive Doucet is a big fan of streetcars, having lived in Toronto while a student.
 
Re: MOU Signed

O-Train Airport Planning


Airport CEO talks details as expanison takes flight
By Kristin Harold, Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Wed, Apr 12, 2006 2:00 PM EST

Artist's rendering of expanded terminal. (Image courtesy Ottawa Airport Authority)

Last week, the Ottawa International Airport Authority held a press conference to announce the $95-million second phase of its expansion program. Local politicians gathered at the event to praise the airport's board of directors and its president and CEO Paul Benoit for all of their hard work, skill and dedication. After opening the new terminal three years ago, the airport has received rave reviews and Mayor Bob Chiarelli cited the airport's recent award from the airline industry as second in the world for customer satisfaction to highlight the team's important accomplishments.

The OBJ sat down with Mr. Benoit to discuss a number of issues, including the impact of the expansion, travel expectations and passport worries, as well as the airport's eventual link to the O-Train.

OTTAWA BUSINESS JOURNAL: What type of feedback are you receiving from the business community about the new terminal and the announcement about the proposed expansion?

Benoit: The other night I was at a function for Air Transat, who is announcing a new service out of Ottawa to Paris this summer, and it was mainly travel agents who were there. They were very complimentary and we've got a good track record, so that really helps.

OBJ: Will the expansion bring more business to Ottawa?

Benoit: Well, not really because people tend to think that because you have a bigger airport that you'll get bigger airplanes, but just look at Mirabel. If the market isn't there, it's not going to happen. The fact we're getting more planes and we've got record levels of passengers is a testimonial to the region and both sides of the river. How many people come to a city to visit an airport? You come to or leave the city for business and for pleasure and things of that nature. This airport used to be an impediment of growth. Before when we had the old terminal, and remember that was just three years ago, we couldn't accept more airplanes at certain times during the day so somebody would come and say "I'd like to start a flight from a to b," and we'd say "Well, geez, you can't go at such and such a time," and they'd say "Well, that's when the market is." We'd say "Well, if you want to go at one o'clock in the morning, I've got lots of time." So, we've built a facility that doesn't become an impediment and the airport doesn't become a bottleneck to constraint growth

OBJ: You're seeing record travel numbers, so what are your expectations for the summer months?

Benoit: The summer months are looking good and again we're seeing more charters than in previous years. We are very much, like most airports, capacity-restrained. Air Canada and WestJet are basically running at full capacity, so until they start bringing more airplanes online, it's going to be difficult to see sustained growth because the demand is such that there's very little opportunity to increase capacity.

OBJ: Are you worried about traffic falling off with the new U.S. passport regulations?

Benoit: I think that, not from a security aspect, but from a tourist and business aspect, it's going to be negative and an adjustment. I think the number is that less than 40 per cent of Canadians have passports. In terms of air travel, I think the impact will be substantial, but it'll be less here than it will be at border cities and border points. I'm not trying to mitigate the impact on aviation, but often a good percentage of people that fly have official travel documents.

OBJ: Are you expecting the new Conservative government to address the federal airport leasing costs?

Benoit: Transport Canada and the previous government did adjust it to the point where our annual public meetings might be dull this time because for the first time in nine years I'm not going to be able to dump on anybody because of my rent. Look, would I prefer to pay no rent? Absolutely, who wouldn't? Would you rather not pay your apartment or your mortgage? Absolutely, but do we have today a deal that I can live with? Yes. Is it a good deal? I'd say yes. In 2010, our rent was going to go to roughly $13-14 million and now it will be in the $4-5 million range, so that's a substantial reduction. If the Conservatives want to do better, then that's great, I'd love to see it. As far as I'm concerned, we're looking at other things.

OBJ: I noticed the inclusion of the O-Train track on the expansion plans. Are you hoping the city will move up the timetable to add an airport link sooner?

Benoit: We've been working very closely with the city and quite honestly, I want to compliment the city administration for how they have handled the airport portion of it. In our relations and the deal we've made with them, it's been extremely professional and extremely good. Regarding bringing it to the airport earlier, I don't believe in building for the sake of building and we've shown that in how we've developed the airport here. The demand isn't there, so don't waste your money. Today we agree with Mayor Chiarelli and his people who have said "Look, right now the airport doesn't have enough demand to justify bringing it out to the airport."

The design for the expansion has a reserved path for the O-Train for if and when the city is prepared to bring it out the airport, but I defy you or anyone – and God knows there are a lot of experts out there – to find me any airport in Canada that has less than $4 million and has a train. You can't sustain it, so if you've got a finite amount of money, why spend $10-15 million to bring something to the airport until the demand warrants it. We've got very good city transportation out here, OC Transpo is doing a great job. The advantage we'd have with the O-Train is that it'll bring a lot of people off the airport parkway and that's something we're looking forward to. When the city is ready, we've already told them that we're going to reserve the right-of-way for them.

One of the things we've done is grant the O-Train access through the airport lands basically at no charge and we're also giving them an option of putting a rail maintenance yard on the airport lands. The city is giving us in return additional sanitary capacity that we need at the airport and we've also got in the agreement that we've got with the city is to say that we're committed to the O-Train and we've reserved the corridor for you and it'll be at no charge to the city.
 
Re: MOU Signed

The system should be installed where the greatest population of users are located. I am trying to figure out why the NCC didn't promote the hell out of the O-Train going to Gatineau in order to create a downtown loop. King Edward and Rideau are choked with Transpo and STO buses. This downtown Ottawa - downtown Gatineau loop should have been a clear priority (and I have no doubts that it would have been difficult to implement).


One would not require a train that can't go faster than 70kph.
 
Re: MOU Signed

Biz,

You are right-on. The NCC and Cities of Ottawa and Gat have conducted or are conducting studies to this effect. There are huge jurisdictional problems. That asid the NCC wants the SDC off of Wellington. Problem, where to put all the buses? Why not use a train that would use Slater/Albert looping around the two downtowns? ANother problem: SDC wants to build a bus transitway and they don't want people to have to transfer to the trains.
 

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