W. K. Lis
Superstar
Hindsight? No. Eglinton is 2 lanes in center Toronto, which is why it was thought as being underground ten (that's 10) years ago.
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New Transit Funding Sources
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
rbt
Senior Member
That's still 2 more than is strictly necessary for private vehicles on a 24/7 basis for a thriving and successful street; even in North America. Also, Eglinton was 4 lanes at a minimum; that 2 were used for parking at most times isn't a point in favour of private vehicle throughput being necessary.
Anyway, yes, the tunnel is happening. Toronto is quite dedicated to putting transit underground BUT we're not doing that for transit capacity; we do it for private vehicle capacity. Toronto is a city in transition and we've chosen, quite purposefully, one of the most expensive ways of making it.
All of that is to say, I think Toronto property taxes, parking fees, etc. should be kicking in an awful lot more into the transit capital pot than we are.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
The LRT plan has 70% of Ottawa's population within 5km of an LRT station. So if they had to insist that only those near stations pay, it wouldn't be a particularly challenging proposition.
I do think Toronto as a whole should pay for all transit development. But where there are substantial issues on enhancement, I don't see why the impacted boroughs shouldn't pony up.
Scarborough had a funded LRT. They want a subway extension instead. Why not have only ratepayers in Scarborough pay for the delta? The rest of the city is contributing what would have been the base costs (cost of the LRT).
Let's imagine that North York had Etobicoke had insisted that the FWLRT should be a subway. Would we want everybody paying for a subway there?
This is the only way I can think of to break the logjam on transit politics. As it stands, the biggest complaints I see from the Scarborough subway opponents are the costs. Alright, make it so the costs don't impact them.
Cobra
Senior Member
City sales Tax of 1%. Part of the problem solved
muller877
Senior Member
Sherway with mass exodus of sales (and all other shopping destination). Square 1 and Mississauga gets the employment and increased property tax. Part of the problem solved. Less jobs in Toronto and therefore the demand for transit decreases.
If I want to buy new electronics or someone wants some expensive fashion/jewelry I would shop in Toronto and then go to the same store at Square 1 if I could save some money. Maybe even wait and go once a month for all my shopping.
I would buy gas 1/2 way through the drive vs right near my house. Again less jobs in Toronto.
muller877
Senior Member
The simplest transit funding source is development. Why are we building separate entrances to the LRT along Eglington? Builders would love to build mid-rises (10 stories). Expropriate the land & sell it to the builders. Transit gets the uptick in the value of the land.
They are already building a parking garage for the condo. Basically extend the parking garage box to underneath the road and it is the station platform and the concourse built.
Instead we reduce the amount of retail and restaurants (street life) along the transit corridor by under-utilizing the road frontage with a overpriced staircase.
(now i'm expecting to hear the yells of protest for those who want their cake and eat it too...a 1 story retail building and no change to the neighbourhood with high order transit and the cost the rest of the taxpayers have to bear)
crs1026
Superstar
The one-storey status quo is quite unrealistic, but the answer is not unbridled highrise condo development either - it may maximise revenue but it's not as liveable and isn't needed to justify higher order transit.. Lots of opportunity on Eglinton for developers to build mixed-use "as of right" 8-storey buildings provided they adhere to the Avenues policies. Few want to stick with that. Where is the revised OMB legislation at, anyways?
- Paul
aquateam
Active Member
Why do we need to "bridle" home construction in a city with a housing affordability crisis? What liveability is sacrificed by having 12 storey buildings instead of 10 storey buildings? Why are midrises so distasteful that we need to outlaw their construction outside of the noisiest, highest-traffic corridors? Knowing the consequences of arbitrarily limiting density (gentrification, sprawl, car-dependence, unaffordability), are any benefits of restrictive zoning worth the societal cost?
Cobra
Senior Member
They always say that, then after a while, this becomes the new normal and you'd be surprise how many people are all talk but won't go out of their way to avoid paying a 1% tax after a while. Many metropolis around the world does this already
kEiThZ
Superstar
It's nonsense that avoidance will be high on a 1% tax. 1% is $10 on a $1000 purchase. How many people you know will drive to the suburbs to save $10 on a $1000. Sure, if you live at the edges of the 416 you might. But the bulk of Toronto residents won't.
Same on gas. If your fill-up costs $50, that 1% amounts to 50 cents. Who exactly is going to burn gas to save 50 cents on their fill-up. Now, if they work outside the 416, then they fill-up on their way home. But again, that won't be the bulk of residents. And we know that because nobody goes out of their way today to save 1-2 cents per litre.
Personally, I think there should be GGH wide taxes going to Metrolinx to fund transport projects. I'd also like to see them take on all roads and taxi licensing, etc. Make them Toronto's TfL.
Same on gas. If your fill-up costs $50, that 1% amounts to 50 cents. Who exactly is going to burn gas to save 50 cents on their fill-up. Now, if they work outside the 416, then they fill-up on their way home. But again, that won't be the bulk of residents. And we know that because nobody goes out of their way today to save 1-2 cents per litre.
Personally, I think there should be GGH wide taxes going to Metrolinx to fund transport projects. I'd also like to see them take on all roads and taxi licensing, etc. Make them Toronto's TfL.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Don't forget the Six Nations reserve and the area around it. It's near Brantford.
kEiThZ
Superstar
And how is that relevant for most of the GTA's population?
crs1026
Superstar
None of those things are going to happen if the Avenues strategy is respected. It was calibrated to deliver the housing levels needed by the city. Density is necessary but that doesn't mean it should be pushed to the limit. The Official Plans are not meant to be a starting point from which negotiaion begins with the sky the limit. These limits should be respected. This is about greed, not city building.
- Paul
ssiguy2
Senior Member
There are many options but I still think the easiest to implement is also the best...........gas taxes. The idea is easy and very fair, the more you drive, the more you pay. It encourages people to take transit, car-pool, or use more fuel efficient {and hence less polluting} vehicles. A small gas tax also has no effect on where people get their gas. People don't even cross the street to get 2 cents cheaper gas so they won't travel for it. Parking and vehicle registration fees are also good options.
As far as tolls, I've never really agreed to them. Here in the LM tolls are all over and uniformaly tend to be poorer than people in the City hurting people South of Fraser. It is just unfair that people who happen to live close to the DVP/Gardiner/Allen may only travel 2km but pay a toll yet someone can drive from Quebec City to Windsor on a freeway thru the entire GTA and not pay a cent.
As far as tolls, I've never really agreed to them. Here in the LM tolls are all over and uniformaly tend to be poorer than people in the City hurting people South of Fraser. It is just unfair that people who happen to live close to the DVP/Gardiner/Allen may only travel 2km but pay a toll yet someone can drive from Quebec City to Windsor on a freeway thru the entire GTA and not pay a cent.
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muller877
Senior Member
There is a gas tax already that is passed to Toronto (about $170M per year). In total we pay $0.10 excise tax, $0.15 provincial excise tax, $0.13 HST (fed & ont) $0.04 carbon tax (cap and trade cost). Total is $0.42 per litre. About 40% at today's rate.
And for shopping around...have you seen the lineups at Costco for gas? I have an app that tells me gas prices and can check out where the cheapest prices are.
The other problem is a lack of trust with City Hall. Any new tax will be sucked into the bowels of the public sector wage increases or EA's that are for a Minister to get into the local paper that never goes anywhere....it will never actually result in increased transit spend.