New Transit Funding Sources

[amnesiajune]

It's in the City of Toronto Act, and it sets Toronto apart from almost any other city in Ontario which are almost all covered by the Municipal Act.

Yes, but it sets Toronto apart by giving it way more power than other cities. A road toll, land transfer tax, parking tax, alcohol and tobacco tax or hotel tax is completely off-limits to any other city. Toronto can impose just about any tax that isn't explicitly banned in the City of Toronto Act.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes, but it sets Toronto apart by giving it way more power than other cities. A road toll, land transfer tax, parking tax, alcohol and tobacco tax or hotel tax is completely off-limits to any other city. Toronto can impose just about any tax that isn't explicitly banned in the City of Toronto Act.

I am not sure why some of these powers should be restricted to the City of Toronto when it makes sense for other municipalities - e.g. hotel tax is pretty much a no-brainer for say Niagara Falls/Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ottawa - instead of quasi-voluntary fees:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tourism-fees-niagara-falls-1.3516372

Perhaps a more reasonable approach would be to consider a tiered approach to municipal power - by population for example.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

I am not sure why some of these powers should be restricted to the City of Toronto when it makes sense for other municipalities - e.g. hotel tax is pretty much a no-brainer for say Niagara Falls/Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ottawa - instead of quasi-voluntary fees:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tourism-fees-niagara-falls-1.3516372

Perhaps a more reasonable approach would be to consider a tiered approach to municipal power - by population for example.

AoD

Mississauga is another city that could probably utilize a hotel tax if they chose to and were able to.

 

[steveintoronto]

Yes, but it sets Toronto apart by giving it way more power than other cities.

I stated "almost", because I hedged my recollection at this time. IIRC five other conurbations Ontario have specific acts for incorporation.

(A road toll, land transfer tax, parking tax, alcohol and tobacco tax or hotel tax is completely off-limits to any other city.

Not what I stated, and not what the Municipal Act states, let alone the specific Acts I mentioned.

Toronto can impose just about any tax that isn't explicitly banned in the City of Toronto Act.

How do you get that? Toronto can only impose taxes *inclusive* in their jurisdiction. The Act isn't based on exclusivity. That remains the domain of the Province and Parliament through various other statutes and acts.

Edit to Add: My recollection is compromised at this point due to illness, there are a number of Ontario municipal jurisdictions that are outside of the Municipal Act, about five last time I checked, but I can't recall them. Here's one:
City of Hamilton Act, 1999, S.O. 1999, c. 14, Sched. C
Versions
Regulations under this Act
current December 31, 2011 – (e-Laws currency date)

January 1, 2011 – December 30, 2011

December 15, 2009 – December 31, 2010

7 more
Print Download

Edit to Add:
[...]
Levies for various services
15. (1) The city may establish one or more municipal service areas and levy one or more special local municipality levies under section 312 of the Municipal Act, 2001in the municipal service areas for the purpose of raising all or part of its costs for the following services, including the costs of establishing, constructing, maintaining, operating, improving, extending and financing those services:

1. The supply and distribution of water.

2. Fire protection and prevention.

3. Public transportation, other than highways.

4. Street lighting.

5. The collection and disposal of sewage. 1999, c. 14, Sched. C, s. 15 (1); 2002, c. 17, Sched. F, Table. [/quote]

As to what defines a "highway" would be itemized elsewhere in the Act itself, or the Min of Housing and Muni Affairs guides.

 

[ADRM]

It's absolutely pathetic that Toronto has to go crawling to this province for permission to implement revenue tools (and various other issues)

It's also absolutely pathetic that our mayor is effectively cutting property taxes amidst $30 billion in unfunded projects, a crumbling TTC, and an historic community housing backlog.

 

[ADRM]

It's also absolutely pathetic that our mayor is effectively cutting property taxes amidst $30 billion in unfunded projects, a crumbling TTC, and an historic community housing backlog.

And, frankly, as long as our municipal leaders are proposing spending a billion-plus dollars to rebuild a portion of an expressway that virtually no one uses when there are perfectly viable alternatives that cost literally hundreds of millions of dollars less, then no, I don't think the city should get what it wants when it wants from the province.

 

[aquateam]

Will John Tory still want the TTC to have a 2.6% cut in their operating budget for 2017?

Will John Tory stick his fingers in his ears or shut his eyes tight if he's presented with this article.

See link.

Texas transit agencies eye bus changes after ridership jump in Houston
Houston's bus overhaul, planned for years but rolled out literally overnight in 2015, has led to an increase in bus ridership, bucking state and national trends. Many are taking notice.
​

Except maybe Mayor Tory?

What Houston did is re-organize their bus network in order to make the best use of existing resources in response to budget cuts, so if anything this is what the TTC would do if it had to follow through with Tory's 2.6% cut. However, I don't know if this could be effectively applied to Toronto since our bus routes already follow most of the principals that Jarrett talks about for efficient bus service (straight lines on arterial roads). Montreal, on the other hand, has an awful spiderweb of circuitous and infrequent bus routes that could really use an outside consultant to re-organize.

 

[Edward Skira]

It's absolutely pathetic that Toronto has to go crawling to this province for permission to implement revenue tools (and various other issues)

What's pathetic is the city begging for new sources of money when they could easily just raise property taxes. The lowest property taxes in the region and yet they are searching for other ways? Makes no sense unless you are a politician I guess.

 

[steveintoronto]

What's pathetic is the city begging for new sources of money when they could easily just raise property taxes. The lowest property taxes in the region and yet they are searching for other ways? Makes no sense unless you are a politician I guess.

That would apply to transit costs, fully agreed, but the tolls as proposed on DVP and Gardiner will only cover costs specific to them. And even come up short on that, claims to the contrary.

The property tax argument is not as simple as it looks when comparing Toronto apples to 905 bananas. The breakdown of residential v. industrial/commercial is necessary to get a truer picture, and the costs associated with those properties and/or subsidies. There's been many studies, almost none non-biased, and almost all the sources for factors are arbitrary to some degree.

The more I think about it, forming an arm's length corporation to buy and then run the DVP and Gardiner to pay for themselves, majority owned by the City but open to other municipalities and private concerns (the corporations behind 407 lease, for instance, would bring expertise in running it) could then pay dividends to shareholders/partners if the yield is greater than cost, would be a good concept to look at. An option would be that said corp could have clause mandating a minimum % of yield above cost to go to transit for not only Toronto, but those municipalities holding share value.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The more I think about it, forming an arm's length corporation to buy and then run the DVP and Gardiner to pay for themselves, majority owned by the City but open to other municipalities and private concerns (the corporations behind 407 lease, for instance, would bring expertise in running it) could then pay dividends to shareholders/partners if the yield is greater than cost, would be a good concept to look at. An option would be that said corp could have clause mandating a minimum % of yield above cost to go to transit for not only Toronto, but those municipalities holding share value.

Why would we toll the DVP/Gardiner to pay for transit in other cities? They can toll their own roads.

 

[WislaHD]

What Houston did is re-organize their bus network in order to make the best use of existing resources in response to budget cuts, so if anything this is what the TTC would do if it had to follow through with Tory's 2.6% cut. However, I don't know if this could be effectively applied to Toronto since our bus routes already follow most of the principals that Jarrett talks about for efficient bus service (straight lines on arterial roads). Montreal, on the other hand, has an awful spiderweb of circuitous and infrequent bus routes that could really use an outside consultant to re-organize.

When Jarrett did a talk in Toronto, he said that he found it odd that our E-W bus routes ended at Yonge line. I wonder if they were continous routes if it would be more cost-efficient? But at the same time, longer routes tend to be less cost-efficient. I wonder where the truth on that question lays, is having our routes cut in half saving us money or do we do it because the TTC has always done it that way?

That being said, I think there are things we can do to our bus network to make them more efficient. There is an active discussion going on in the Sheppard East LRT thread over the benefits of queue-lane jumping on bus routes, and employing a network of BRT or BRT-lite in our suburbs.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

When Jarrett did a talk in Toronto, he said that he found it odd that our E-W bus routes ended at Yonge line. I wonder if they were continous routes if it would be more cost-efficient? But at the same time, longer routes tend to be less cost-efficient. I wonder where the truth on that question lays, is having our routes cut in half saving us money or do we do it because the TTC has always done it that way?

That being said, I think there are things we can do to our bus network to make them more efficient. There is an active discussion going on in the Sheppard East LRT thread over the benefits of queue-lane jumping on bus routes, and employing a network of BRT or BRT-lite in our suburbs.

Would they be more efficient? What is the dominant ridership pattern (through E-W or feeder to Yonge?)

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

Would they be more efficient? What is the dominant ridership pattern (through E-W or feeder to Yonge?)

AoD

Is that the dominant ridership pattern because of trip generation reasons or because that is how our network is designed?

If traveling from Bayview to Dufferin didn't require a bus transfer at Yonge, would more people be making these trips? (We might see this kind of trip more often once the Crosstown opens for instance, which is why there is large latent demand on the Eglinton corridor)

Here is Jarrett Walker's Toronto video: http://humantransit.org/2014/02/video-my-presentation-in-toronto.html

He starts talking about our grid network and our buses at 13 minute mark.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is that the dominant ridership pattern because of trip generation reasons or because that is how our network is designed?

If traveling from Bayview to Dufferin didn't require a bus transfer at Yonge, would more people be making these trips? (We might see this kind of trip more often once the Crosstown opens for instance, which is why there is large latent demand on the Eglinton corridor)

Here is Jarrett Walker's Toronto video: http://humantransit.org/2014/02/video-my-presentation-in-toronto.html

He starts talking about our grid network and our buses at 13 minute mark.

Good question - chicken or the egg? I guess ECLRT will be an interesting test case - but the big question is just how much of a latent demand is there.

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

Good question - chicken or the egg? I guess ECLRT will be an interesting test case - but the big question is just how much of a latent demand is there.

AoD

I am cautiously optimistic. Living in the area, I feel many people are willing transit users, just not willing bus users. Buses beyond being uncomfortable, outdoors and packed at rush hour, also have a negative stigma. A stigma that I believe would not be present with the LRT. Plus the aforementioned crosstown trips that will no longer require a transfer. There are many destinations on the Eglinton corridor. And lastly, our ridership projections did not consider the interlining of the SMLRT, now called Crosstown East. Without the forced transfer at Kennedy, I think we will find that many people will opt for continuing to Eglinton station rather than transfering to Bloor, as it will be quicker to reach Yonge, one less transfer, and less crappy of an interchange at Eglinton compared to Bloor-Yonge.

The only issue is if the Crosstown is too succesful, it will suddenly reveal the stupidity and short-sightedness of some design decisions (Leslie intersection, not grade separating in Scarborough, short-turning at Laird instead of Don Mills, not increasing capacity of Yonge-Eglinton station, and of course, not building the DRL....) but that is a discussion probably best saved for the Crosstown thread. (Though, I bet all of those design issues will end up costing us billions more in the decades following ECLRT's opening)

This being said, if there is large latent demand on Eglinton, then it begs the question of what can be done with Lawrence, York Mills/Wilson, Finch and Steeles to make bus service more attractive and crosstown trips more palatable.