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New Transit Funding Sources

TheTigerMaster said:
I got it. The toll will generate $160 Million per year. This report is saying that $1.40 of the $2.00 toll will need to go towards paying for the Gardiner rebuild over the first 10 years.

That's fine, in my opinion. Remember this road toll generating $160 Million/year isn't the only revenue source for transit. We also have the $70 Million property tax levy and $20 Million hotel tax, totalling $250 Million/year. The first four years of these revenues will be dedicated to the Gardiner and the rest is free to be used on transit. Let's not let those four years being dedicated to the Gardiner cause opponents to throw out potentially decades of sustained transit building progress. This is the closest we've been to having a municipal source to fund a continual program of rapid transit expansion. We need to push forward. Dedicating four years of revenue to the gardiner is a small price to pay for that.
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If my math is right...

$1.40 is 70% of the $2.00 toll.

30% of $160 Million a year is $48 Million a year. Over 30 years, that is about $1,440,000,000.

Sounds like the leftovers from the toll is enough to fund the Scarborough Subway cost overruns.
 
WislaHD said:
If my math is right...

$1.40 is 70% of the $2.00 toll.

30% of $160 Million a year is $48 Million a year. Over 30 years, that is about $1,440,000,000.

Sounds like the leftovers from the toll is enough to fund the Scarborough Subway cost overruns.
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Can't mix current year and future year dollars. Your missing the interest in-between.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I got it. The toll will generate $160 Million per year. This report is saying that $1.40 of the $2.00 toll will need to go towards paying for the Gardiner rebuild over the first 10 years.
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No it's not. $1.40 pays for operating costs and maintenance for the entire Gardiner and DVP, plus the cost of administering the toll system. I think the Gardiner East rehabilitation is included in that figure. It also frees up $2.6 billion that the city had committed to spending over the next ten years.

Read the full report, staring at the bottom of page 41: http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-98518.pdf#page=41 (ICYMI: "Preliminary results, illustrated in the following table, indicate that in order to recover the rehabilitation and maintenance costs of the Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway, along with tolling system development and operating costs, a toll of approximately $1.40 per trip or $0.14 per kilometre for a minimum of thirty (30) years would be required.")
 
amnesiajune said:
Any toll has to be approved at Queen's Park, and that's not going to happen if the government that approves it has to campaign with "road tolls that don't apply to Toronto elites" on their record.

And again, this is stupid. The point of road tolls is to reward people who use public transit or carpool, not to shake your fist at people on the other side of an arbitrary, imaginary line.
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amnesiajune said:
Any toll has to be approved at Queen's Park, and that's not going to happen if the government that approves it has to campaign with "road tolls that don't apply to Toronto elites" on their record.

And again, this is stupid. The point of road tolls is to reward people who use public transit or carpool, not to shake your fist at people on the other side of an arbitrary, imaginary line.
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Province OK with road tolls . . . if city council approves

Queen’s Park will not slam the brakes on Toronto Mayor John Tory’s plan to slap $2 tolls on the Don Valley Parkway and the Gardiner Expressway.

See link.
 
crs1026 said:
We don't need to bring transit into this. It's about applying supply and demand to roads, period. Until the last decade, people had an expectation that there would be road capacity any time they wanted it. That is no longer possible.

Density, not transit, has killed the automobile. Transit becomes the solution, but not because we dislike the auto. We can't build a road network that's big enough to hold all the cars, unless we abandon density. The folks in Mammolitiville just don't see that yet.

I'm waiting for events like the Six Points project to drive this home. When they tear down the cloverleaf in the center of Etobicoke, and add all the new development in the area, Etobicoke's roads will fill up. That's not a war on the car, it's the consequence of development.

- Paul
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Exactly!

There was a comment in one of the papers today from an Oakville resident, proclaiming that road tolls would be a disaster for downtown businesses. Instead of making the trip to Toronto to shop at the Eaton's Centre, he's now more inclined to stay local and shop in Oakville! This is a laughable threat today as there is a significant residential population creating a critical mass for downtown businesses to thrive, without the reliance of pulling from the suburban market.The densification in the past couple decades has directly and indirectly created a myriad of positive outcomes for the city.
 
Cobra said:
would love

2$ for 416 drivers
3.25$ (token price) for 905 drivers
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A flat fee, or flat fees get us away from the direction this must move in, for all forms of commuting. The fee must reflect the distance travelled and a base cost of administering that added. Once that is established, costs are are applied much more equitably to the amount used and the costs of providing it.

For transit, it's the basis for establishing integrated fare systems and seamless transfers. Cost per distance for drivers also reflects increased loading on air quality and land use.

How the tolls are applied becomes the secondary discussion after Council agreeing to them, and the cabinet at Queen's Park approving it:
Regulations
Regulations re toll highways
116. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations providing for any matters which, in the opinion of the Lieutenant Governor in Council, are necessary or desirable for the purposes of section 41, including,

(a) requiring the City to obtain the approval of any person or body before designating, operating or maintaining a highway as a toll highway;

(b) providing for criteria which must be met before the City can designate, operate or maintain a highway as a toll highway;

(c) imposing conditions and limitations on the powers of the City to designate, operate or maintain a highway as a toll highway;

(d) granting the City additional powers with respect to the operation and maintenance of a toll highway, including powers with respect to the collection and enforcement of tolls imposed for the use of a toll highway;

(e) without limiting clause (d), providing that the provisions of the Capital Investment Plan Act, 1993 and the regulations under that Act which relate to toll highways apply to the City with such changes as are prescribed;

(f) establishing process requirements with respect to the designation, operation and maintenance of a highway as a toll highway, including requiring the City to provide notice to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing or any other person or body of its intention to designate a highway as a toll highway;

(g) providing that the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing or any other person or body who receives notice under clause (f) may prohibit the City from making the designation even though the designation is otherwise authorized under the regulation. 2006, c. 11, Sched. A, s. 116 (1).
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https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06c11

The Province just might wish to be part of the implementation so as to do similar on the 400 series of highways, at least for express lanes. This would considerably lessen the costs of implementation for Toronto, and the Province itself might be amenable to running and collecting the system for Toronto as part of its own program.

You can bet your rubber tired booties that Wynne et al are watching this very closely holding their breath. The Province has been toying with same for over a generation.

Edit to Add:
[...]
Queen’s Park will not slam the brakes on Toronto Mayor John Tory’s plan to slap $2 tolls on the Don Valley Parkway and the Gardiner Expressway.

But Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca emphasized Thursday that the province will not impose similar road-pricing charges on Ontario’s 400-series highways.

“No. Not happening,” Del Duca told the Star. [...]
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...ith-road-tolls--if-city-council-approves.html

lol... It's got to happen. Just not before the next provincial election.
 
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Voltz said:
But the Tories could just campaign in the next election stop the tolls, to buy 905 seats.
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Won't happen. The Province is uttering under their breath to Toronto: "You go first". Watch for similar, albeit possibly limited, tolling of the 400 series highways. Province will hedge bets by applying it to express lanes initially. California is an excellent example of where this was very successful, as well as the Pan Am lanes, albeit it will have to be done with transponders and distance increment like the 407 for it to properly reflect usage and fair charging.

  • Nov. 24, 2016

About ExpressLanes
How It Works
SOLO DRIVERS on the I-110 and I-10 with a FasTrak® transponder now have the choice to pay a toll to use the ExpressLanes.
CARPOOLS AND VANPOOLS can use the ExpressLanes toll-free with a FasTrak® transponder. Watch the Carpool Loyalty Program video.

The I-110 and I-10 Metro ExpressLanes regulations will be enforced by the California Highway Patrol using visual and electronic means. Watch the Rules of the Road video.



  1. Prior to starting your trip, you will indicate the number of occupants in your vehicle by moving the switch on the transponder to the appropriate setting (1, 2, 3+). Note: 2-person carpools are charged a toll on the I-10 ExpressLanes Mon-Fri 5-9am and 4-7pm.
  2. The I-110 and I-10 Metro ExpressLanes will operate 24/7 and will be separated from the general purpose lanes by double solid white lines. The fine for crossing the double solid white lines is a minimum of $491.
  3. The first sign will be a FASTRAK ONLY ExpressLanes sign approximately 1/2 mileaway from the entrance to signify the distanceremaining to enter the ExpressLanes. Entryto and exit from the ExpressLanes will beindicated by a single dashed white line.
  4. Tolls on the ExpressLanes are based on the current congestion level and the length of your trip. Approximately 1/4 mile away from the entrance to the ExpressLanes, the second overhead electronic sign displays two toll amounts:
    1) The current toll from this entrance to the next major exit; and
    2) the current toll from this entrance to the end of the ExpressLanes.
  5. The third sign indicates the entry point to the ExpressLanes and informs drivers that FasTrak is required to use the ExpressLanes.
  6. The fourth sign marks the start of the ExpressLanes toll segment and is the finalreminder to the driver that FasTrak is requiredbeyond this point.
  7. Once you are beyond the ExpressLanes entry/exit point, where the dashed white line ends and the double solid white lines begin again, an overhead antenna will read the FasTrak transponder, and for solo drivers who choose to use the ExpressLanes, the correct toll amount will be automatically deducted from your FasTrak account based upon the toll amounts displayed to you on the second sign. Those vehicles that are carpooling and meet the minimum occupancy requirements will not have a toll deducted from their account.
  8. Motorcycles do not need a FasTrak transponder to use the ExpressLanes.
    The I-110 and I-10 Metro ExpressLanes regulations will be enforced by the California Highway Patrol using visual and electronic means.
    Vehicles displaying a DMV issued white or green Clean Air Vehicle decal can use the ExpressLanes toll-free with a switchable FasTrak set to 3 (3+ person carpool).

Tolls on the ExpressLanes will be calculated using Congestion Pricing. Congestion pricing provides an opportunity to sell some of the additional capacity on the ExpressLanes to those willing to pay a toll and maximizes efficiency of the entire freeway. It is designed to keep traffic in the ExpressLanes flowing smoothly, resulting in a more reliable travel time. Tolls on the ExpressLanes are based on real-time traffic conditions and vary according to the level of congestion in the ExpressLanes. The toll is higher when there is more traffic in the ExpressLanes, and lower when traffic is lighter. Watch the Congestion Pricing video.

Fact Sheets

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tiffer24 said:
A list of other people to pay for "Toronto's continued success"--angry email from councillor Jim Karygiannis:

This proposal is ludicrous. It will add an extra $20.00 per week to those who work in downtown Toronto. While it will be a cash cow for the City, it will be an additional financial burden to middle and low income families, many of who are living pay cheque to pay cheque

Mayor John Tory released a proposal to impose road tolls on the Gardiner Expressway and the Don Valley Parkway as a fair and effective way to address the City of Toronto’s financial challenges. The Mayor feels that by charging drivers a toll of just $2.00, the City could raise more than $200 million each year. He has indicated that these funds that would go directly to road repairs and transit expansion. The Mayor also indicated that forty percent of the drivers on these highways come from outside the City of Toronto and they can help contribute to our City’s continued success.

To avoid the tolls, drivers will start using City streets to reach their destinations. The will increase traffic on already congested streets. The additional traffic will increase the dangers to pedestrians and cyclists. It will also lead to more road repairs.

The Don Valley Parkway (built in the 1960’s) and the Gardiner Expressway (built in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s) were built with City and Provincial monies. Torontonians already have paid for Don Valley Parkway and Gardiner Expressway. If there are any tolls to be levied, they should be levied on people who live outside the City of Toronto. We should be asking the forty percent who use these roads to get to work to help maintain these roads.
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Then by that logic, since the Yonge and Bloor subways were built with monies generations ago, we shouldn't have to pay to ride them, just outsiders.

The best way to make this equitable for all (besides a low-income exception for some, a separate topic) is for it to be *distance based*.

Low Income Exception as done by the legendary car addicted Los Angelinos:
banner_exllowincome_650x300.jpg

Qualifying residents of Los Angeles County will receive a discount of a one-time $25 credit when they set up their account (proof of eligibility required). This credit can then be applied to either the transponder deposit or pre-paid toll deposit. The monthly $1 account maintenance fee will also be waived.

To qualify for the Low-Income Assistance Plan, you must:


  • Be an LA County resident
  • Have an annual household income equal to or less than the amounts shown below:
table_expresslanes.gif


  • Provide proof of eligibility by submitting a copy of one of the following documents with your applications:
    • Check Stub
    • Public Benefit
    • MediCal
    • Tax Return
    • Lifeline
    • LAUSD Lunch Recipient
    • EBT

To apply for the Low-Income Assistance Plan, download the application, provide proof of eligibility and submit by mail, or visit one of our walk-in center locations. For more information, click here.
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