NDP sets conditions on backing Liberals

[Antiloop33rpm]

www.cbc.ca/story/canada/n...ml?ref=rss

NDP sets conditions on backing Liberals
Last Updated Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:56:37 EDT
CBC News

NDP leader Jack Layton says the Liberals must meet some of his party's policy priorities if the government wants NDP support in Parliament.

The minority Liberal government needs backing from other parties if it is to survive confidence votes, and the NDP is the most likely source.

Layton said Sunday that the NDP wants the Liberals to:

Demonstrate support for public health care and stop what the NDP calls increased privatization.
Take action on climate change.
Get the U.S. to address the softwood lumber issue.
Protect workers' pensions.
Address ethical issues.
While some observers had thought that the NDP would support the Liberals, as they did earlier this year, the list of specific demands was surprising.

It means the Liberals can't take NDP support for granted.

Layton said Prime Minister Paul Martin must indicate he'll co-operate or the NDP may vote against the government in confidence motions expected in November.

If the government loses a confidence vote, it will trigger an election.

The Liberals have said they will call an election after Justice John Gomery releases his second report into the sponsorship scandal, expected to be early in the new year.

The NDP backed the Liberal spring budget after the government promised to spend $4.6 billion more on social programs over two years.

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Im very excited to see that the NDP is really using its position to hold the government accountable on social issues. The one issue I was surprised to see, but is one that is really important and under discussed, is pension protection. Watching what is happening in the States and the erosion of pensions and corporations robbing its workers blind, I can only hope that their experience is used as an eye opener here to ensure the same thing does not happen.

 

[spmarshall]

Most of those conditions fit in with what the Liberals have promised or said they'd like to do anyway. What this means mostly is that the NDP will hold the Liberals accountable to their word on the issues both parties support. It's fairly reasonable.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

Most of those conditions fit in with what the Liberals have promised or said they'd like to do anyway. What this means mostly is that the NDP will hold the Liberals accountable to their word on the issues both parties support. It's fairly reasonable.

For the most part thats fairly accurate. Pensions and climate change are two though that I think that the Liberals, with all their talk, would likely push to the wayside if it were possible. I would have liked to see the NDP address the issue of Federal-Provincial relations and issues such as equalization payments, but given this session will be lucky to last 6 months, I think they have picked their battles rather well. And while they are at it, it would be nice to see the decriminalization of marijuana as well, which, for realistic reasons has been pushed out of the public discourse.

 

[mpolo2]

...so when unions extort concessions out of corporations beyond what that corporations can afford and the company goes broke then now we (taxpayers) can pay the difference!

 

[rbtaylor]

...so when unions extort concessions out of corporations beyond what that corporations can afford and the company goes broke then now we (taxpayers) can pay the difference!

Of course they do. A union is a company in control of the labour. Any company which sells labour as a service (think consultants) do their best to obtain maximum $'s for their service.

Government contracts with all companies are usually bloated and carry far more profit than they would if they were working with a small firm. Working with the government is also quite a bit more difficult than dealing with someone else because it is usually public and some risk comes with that.

Bannerman Contracting (family business) charges a fair %age higher rates for gravel for government contracts than non-government since the government has a bad habit of delaying or renegotiating contracts, and thats if they get through negotiations the first time around due to the long (fickle and transparent) processes involved.

I was reading the TTC reports the other day and one company, lowest bidder with appropriate experience, was turned down because their submission said they agreed to contract components A and B but the TTC didn't have a component B. They became disqualified. This is government transparency and process, as a result the company will invest more time into the proposal and charge a higher rate in the future.

Unions and their employees go through the same crap.

 

[Fighting Madd]

IMO, the NDP will not do as well in the upcoming election. Martin has embraced most of Layton's positions, making Layton less relevant to voters. Of course there are those of you here who will say Layton is needed to keep the Liberals on track and honest, but IMO average voters don't think like that.

My thoughts on the Spring election are all of Quebec goes to the Bloc, NDP gets 3 seats in Ontario, one in BC, SK and MB. The CPC takes everything west of Ontario minus a few Liberal/NDP strongholds.

Personally I can't stand Layton, so I'm admittedly biased.

 

[afransen TO]

Conservatives are in a fairly tenuous position as it is...

 

[Fighting Madd]

The CPC will win strongly out west. Their position is only "tenuous" in Ontario and the east, and non-existant in the west. I'm not arguing that the CPC will win the next election, IMO they'll do worse this time around. However IMO the big loser of the next election will be the NDP.

 

[spmarshall]

You mean you hope the biggest loser will be the NDP.

 

[mpolo2]

I would like to amend my comments above a bit. To be honest I was admittadly just being infamatory to provoke - which can be fun sometimes. However, what I sort of meant was that it is generally understood that for the long-term sustainability of any organization, there needs to be a genuine understanding of the impacts of strategic decisions on all stakeholders. In that light, many organizations neglect their workers at their own peril, ie high turnover rates, low productivity adn a corresponding shift toward low margin business. Same goes for ignoring your shareholders (a la Nortel) and seeing your cost of capital rise to the point that it impinges your overall strategic options. That said, there is also an equal propensity on certain unions, and it has to be said the North American ones tend to be more guilty of this, who are extracting more costs out of the organization to the detriment of the entire entity. I dont see the point in arguing who to blame in cases like Stelco or any of the Big 3 automakers, or Air Canada or... but there seem to be obvious non-union foils (Dofasco, Toyota/Honda, Westjet) that have proven a lot more economically viable. And in the long run, that is in the best interest of all the stakeholders.

On the question of the NDP next election, I have to agree with Fighting Madd on both counts.

 

[cdl42]

Usually all bets are off once an election is called. How the NDP does will likely be highly dependent upon how they market themselves during the election. You might see them playing up a "if you like what you see, thank the NDP" type of campaign where they will try to separate themselves from the Libs as much as possible and remind people that programs such as the new transit funding were as a result of them, not the Libs. If the election finally comes as a result of a non-confidence vote and is seen as an unpopular time for an election, they could play up how an election would have occurred even earlier if it wasn't for them but they were more interested in actually making government work. (Whether it is true or not is debateable, I'm just talking about ways they could market themselves.)

Even with all the guessing and predicting leading up to the past few elections, it's interesting how little the results have varied in the past few elections and I'm doubtful that we will see much change in this one (though I put the blame for this upon the parties and their leaders rather than the public). I really think we'll have to wait until the actual election time before having any real idea where things will go.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

The NDP have a good chance to continue to make some ground. They have presented themselves well since the past election, and although some criticize Jack Layton for not fitting the usual political party leader mold, he does slowly seem to be improving in terms of learning the ropes of federal politics. I have seen him speak on several occasions at grassroots events and an anti-war rally, and on those occasions, I was impressed by how well he was able to address the crowd. Watching him fall into media focus when he first came into the public spotlight at first did show some of the disadvantage he had not having a background in federal or provincial politics, but slowly I have found him to be much more confident in his position which will be a benefit on his next election tour.

One of the biggest obstacles the NDP have to overcome is the image of a moderate socialist party not being able to deal with issues such as finance and not being business friendly. The legacy of the Bob Rae era that exists in Ontario still seems to have some effect in their ability to make a lot of ground there. The only way that the NDP is going to really starting making a lot of ground is to get back to the streets and start knocking on doors and actually talking to people face to face. Its hard when the Liberals and CPC tend to rely on media more than anything else, but if the NDP is serious about pushing forward their ideals, they really have to get more of its supporters out in the streets to help get out the message.

And of course, as Cdl said, its really hard to predict what will happen once the election is called. Last election pretty much proved that with polls swinging every day. The most critical points that effect it though are going to be when it is called (a November versus Spring election), the outcome of the Gomery Report, and of course how the Liberals time their various initiatives. A report from the Globe and Mail I just got has stated the Liberals are planning a series of tax cuts as well as post secondary, research and development, and public infrastructure investment. (link here www.theglobeandmail.com/s...axxx1020).

I think one issue that could really come into play this election is proportional representation. With the Bloc set to increase their share of seats and push a spector of seperatism into the campaign, and what could be a growing frustration with the government in general (especially after the Gomery Reoprt) I would not be surprised to see a lot of Canadians really looking seriously at this idea and making it a campaign issue.

 

[jeicow]

The only areas I could see the NDP winning more seats is in Toronto, Vancouver, and Edmonton. Possibly some other urban areas (Calgray, Halifax, West Island Montreal). I could see the Conservatives making up a lot of ground in Ontario, as long as they play their cards right. The world right now favours a conservative Government in ways, but it all depends how the world is like in an election period.

BTW, please stop assuming that all of Quebec will go Bloc. West Island Quebec will never go Bloc, and the last three (maybe 4, can't remember that far) prime ministers we've had all held seats in PQ.

 

[blixa442]

One of the biggest obstacles the NDP have to overcome is the image of a moderate socialist party not being able to deal with issues such as finance and not being business friendly. The legacy of the Bob Rae era that exists in Ontario still seems to have some effect in their ability to make a lot of ground there.

I don't think this is exclusive to Ontario. Every NDP government in this country has implemented disastrous economic policies that had to be drastically .rectifed by subsequent governments. I shudder to think what would happen if Layton were to lead a majority government.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

Blixa: Mind giving a few examples of these policies and their effects?