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moving to T.O.

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SecretShake

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Hello,

I have been seriously thinking about moving from Edmonton to Toronto or Montreal when I graduate from college in Decemeber. Right now, I am more inclined to choose Toronto just because my French is mediocre at best.

I've lived in Edmonton my whole life. My main reasons for wanting to move to Toronto are:
-Way bigger music scene (I love playing and listing to live music)
-Winter is not as harsh
-There seems to be a lot of IT related jobs (The field I have trained in)
-I don't want to own a car
-I want to stay in Canada
-It's closer to other large cities like NYC
-It's not full of rig pigs and their rig rockets
-I have some extended family in the GTA

Is there anyone who's lived in both Montreal and Toronto (or even better, Edmonton, Montreal and Toronto) and could compare them? How competitive is the job market (considering I will only have 8 months of experience in my field and a 2 year diploma)? How bad is crime in Toronto? How open are Torontonians to "outsiders"? What makes Toronto great?

I've only been there once when I was 13 and will definetly visit again before I make any decisions. I'm also debating wheather I should tough it out here for another year or so and get some more work experience.

Thanks
 
I grew up in Edmonton and moved to Waterloo for university, and then on and off in Toronto for work terms, and now in Toronto permanently... and as much as I love my hometown, nothing beats Toronto if you really want to live life. A few things from your list:

1) Don't think the winter is less harsh. Edmonton's winters feel a lot different than Southern Ontario's... I never owned a scarf growing up in Edmonton.. I can't go without one here. It's a very biting cold here that chills you to the bone. -10 in Toronto can be worse than -30 in Edmonton.

2) Crime is not a problem in Toronto, as much as the media portrays otherwise. You can walk around most of the downtown here pretty freely. I felt more nervous walking around downtown Edmonton late at night, especially when devoid of people.

3) Torontonians are a friendly bunch. I've met a lot of great people here, and most people I know who have moved here have said the same thing.. it's no different than moving anywhere else.

4) Job market, at least for me, seems pretty good. It depends on your field of work, of course. IT seems to be doing pretty well here these days.

5) And yes, the music scene here is awesome.

Good luck with your decision -- Edmonton is a hard city to leave.. I miss Edmonton summers.
 
I have never lived in Edmonton but have lived in both Montreal (and now in Toronto.)

1. If you cannot function in French you will probably not find it too easy to get a job in Montreal unless you have very specialised skills.

2. Winters in Toronto are milder and shorter than in Montreal (and both are much better than in Edmonton, I think.)

3. Transit is good in Toronto so you can live without a car - esp. f you select your district well and get a job within a reasonable commuting distance Toronto has lots of great neighbourhoods and the only way to decide where to live is to come and explore - get a transit pass and get out there!


4. Despite what non-Torontonians say, Toronto is a very friendly City where people chat in line-ups and on the street. In Montreal people are also friendly but many are scared to start a conversation in case the answer is in the "wrong language". If you are comfortable in both English and French that's not a problem but ...

Good luck!
 
I've lived in Toronto and Montreal and I would suggest living in Toronto and saving Montreal for visits, especially if your French is not so good. I think the music scene is better in Toronto (English music anyway), the winters are milder, there are more jobs, and it's easier to live without a car. Torontonians are very open to outsiders... the whole city is made up of outsiders.
 
Your list of priorities sound tailor made for Toronto!

- The music scene here is enormous. If you follow music even a little, you'll be able to find shows every night of the week that interest you. Often you'll need to decide between two or three... it's always been like that but I think in the last 5 years or so the scene has exploded even more. In addition to all the local talent I notice that midsized US and UK bands seem to be coming here multiple times a year now and still selling out every show.

- This past winter was rough but it was a highly abnormal. Usually we get very little snow that sticks around for more than a few days, and while the grey cold damp wind does become dreary over the long haul, I think that in terms of both temperature and snowfall you can safely class Toronto winters as mild next to Edmonton's.

- I'm in IT, and yes, right now there seems to be lots of work for those with the right skills. As a freelance web developer I turn down work all the time. If you are looking for a big corporate gig, however, you may find that many of the companies headquarter slightly north of Toronto in the Markham area. That can be a bit of a painful commute from downtown due to traffic, and pretty much requires a car. Downtown there are some major companies (including all the banks) but also many smaller creative Internet, marketing and design agencies that always need IT people. The pay at those may be somewhat lower but the work is often more creative and comes with better lifestyle perks (less workaholic hours, relaxed dress code, and coworkers that are actually sorta fun to hang around). These are my observations based on my personal experiences, anyway.

- So long as you are downtown, owning a car can be more of a hassle than a convenience. Traffic is a pain, and both parking and insurance are expensive. I haven't owned a car for 5 years and despite all the whining you hear about the TTC, it really is pretty decent from most places. I get around happily on foot, streetcar and subway; many other braver souls use bikes, some year-round. In a pinch there are always cabs and rental cars available for occasional use. When you choose a neighbourhood to live in, be sure to test your commute first, though, especially at peak hours. This will likely have the biggest impact on your lifestyle in Toronto.

- NYC is a one hour flight away, or an overnight bus trip. Porter Airlines on the Toronto Islands just added flights to Newark that are apparently quite cheap and stress-free compared to flights out of Pearson.

- I have no idea what a "rig pig" or "rig rocket" is so I don't think we have 'em.
 
Rig Pig , but a pretty one :)

1412916807_f70934fe62.jpg


"They're foul-mouthed. Dirty. Uneducated. All they do is drink and get into fights. It's a perception of rig workers that culminates in the term "rig pig."

"It's a stereotype from 15 years ago when a single young guy would go out fighting and drinking. You could tell there was a rig in town when they'd be drinking in the little bar"
 
^ Thanks for the education! "Rig pig" is a new term to me! I certainly wouldn't call that young lady a pig; is she the "rocket"? :)

I have never lived in Edmonton and am poorly qualified to answer some of your questions, but as already mentioned, a majority in Toronto are relative newcomers. Census data indicates that over 40% of the population were born outside Canada, and a much higher percentage were originally from outside the Toronto area. When you meet someone who is actually a Toronto native, it is usual to have a bit of an ironic laugh about it, as they are not that common.

Winter weather is variable but it has been noted that Prairie winters, although colder, may be more comfortable than Ontario, as the Prairie air is dryer. You can count on at least one mid-winter thaw which turns the snow to slush :eek:

Puke Green gives excellent advice regarding choosing your place to live with due regard for your commute to work. It's an important point. Significantly slower commutes may be the biggest difference you would note, depending of course on your commuting distance and mode of travel. Subway is faster than surface transit of course, if locations work for you.

Best wishes.

Edit: Not to downgrade Montreal, it's an interesting city and a great place to visit. English is widely spoken, but the "working language" is definitely French, in most cases.
 
Yes, cruzin4u has pretty much summed up a rig pig haha. And yes, a rig rocket is their vehicle of choice for burning back and forth between Edmonton and the oil sands up north. The typical rig rocket is a newer model heavy duty truck that has been jacked up with monster truck style tires and some crude decals on the back window (Calvin pissing; No Fat Chicks; buy a gun, piss of liberal; and that sort of thing...). Bumpernuts can often be seen hanging from the hitch: www.bumpernuts.com. I don't have any pictures, but I think you all get the point. Here's one for sale if anybody wants ;) http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-ve...-97-DOGDE-DAKOTA-rig-rocket-W0QQAdIdZ56931453

Thanks a lot for the replies. I really appreciate the feedback. The more I hear about Toronto, here and elsewhere, the more it seems like the place for me. PukeGreen: the smaller companies you speak of are exactly what I am looking for. I have no interest in a position with a larger corporation (at least at this point in my life, that may well change). I am a lot more interested in new ideas and working with a smaller group of people. I'm just worried my skills may not be developed enough to find something yet. The focus of my my training is web applications (so far: J2EE, vb.net and C#.net) and I'm doing really well, but lack a lot of hands on experience. In your opinion, is there a reasonable amount of entry level positions there for new grads? I'm certainly not looking for great pay to start out.

I forgot to ask about something else I hear a lot about: smog. I've heard it's really bad in the summer.
 
Summer only lasts 3 months :eek:, so smog/humidity is not much of an issue.

It seems those rig rockets are the equivalent to what you would find down South in the States. Big tires, big lifts, bumpernuts, confederate flags,.. not my cup of tea.

I think if you move here, you will love it. I know a couple that moved here from, I believe Edmonton (could have been Calgary), a few years ago and absolutely love it. If you like the hussle and bussle of big city life, then Toronto welcomes you!
 
another popular bit of advice is to visit before you make the move! If you visit, it might be a good idea to check out a few places in the DT neighbourhoods or places along the subway line.

although Alberta's economy is on fire, you can definitely find something here in TO.

How bad is crime in Toronto?
-if you check the legit stats from Statscan or the Police, Toronto is actually one of the safest cities in Canada.

How open are Torontonians to "outsiders"?
-Mostly everyone here is an outsider so you'll be treated the same as everyone else. People here don't dwell on where you're from. They're too busy enjoying life and doing their own thing. So if you're from the "west", I believe you'll be surprised that many ppl here couldn't care less. Although this is from my personal experience.

What makes Toronto great?
There is probably a variety and depth of citylife you won't find anywhere else in Canada. And if need you to escape it, Toronto is a short flight to major cities in the Northeast, as you know. Philadelphia is one city that has got me buzzin lately.

One thing we obviously don't have is close proximity to jaw dropping scenery. Our cottage country is "nice" but it doesn't compare to those that I visited in Alberta/BC.
 
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