MoveOntario 2020: GO Transit Electrification

[dunkalunk]

I cannot see taking the Electrification to KW as the ridership is not there to support it in the first place other than it a line. Milton out weights KW hands down.

Obviously, the ARL and Lakeshore electrification (From Hamiton to Oshawa) need to come first. However, with the number of greyhounds and GO buses that run between KW and the GTA on a daily basis, and the crowding on the 401, and a population area (Waterloo Region and Guelph) similar in size to Hamilton, there is definitely the pent-up demand for frequent, better quality regional train service.

Electrification of the Kitchener/Georgetown corridor, and the Lakeshore from Hamilton to Oshawa are important first steps to creating a reliable regional rail system, and could be the preliminary groundwork for high speed rail links. We could do this instead of building a new GTA west expressway and widening the 401 to 10 lanes. The Guelph subdivision has a few bends, but is generally straight enough to run high(er)-speed service along the existing corridor. (between Kitchener and Toronto in under an hour easily, 100km/h average speed).

Milton is also a good candidate, but is heavily used by freight and is mostly a commuter line with less dense population areas outside of Mississauga. Electrification to Milton would not be as good a candidate, as it is mostly a commuter line. However, I would argue that electrification and all-day GO service to Mississauga is of equal importance as electrifying to Kitchener due to heavy cross-travel on the existing bus routes.

 

[junctionist]

We may be seeing a great triumph for the people of this metropolis, that as it plans a massive expansion of GO and airport transit, the government has recognized the best option for the environment (both local and regional) and for the reliability, efficiency, and sustainability of passenger rail services into the future. It may not be what we're used to, but I've always believed that we as a people can achieve the very best. In this case, that would be a large-scale increase in regional transit services with the cleanest and most reliable technology available. It has taken us too long, but we may finally be on the right track.

It is my hope that successive governments will build on this progress. Both the NDP and some notable Conservatives such as Frank Klees have shown support for electrification so far.

 

[Automation Gallery]

All i can say is, when Ontario finally gets its rail electrification the rest of the developed world will be on to something different..

 

[gweed123]

I want to hear Hudak's position on this before I get too excited. Unlike some Transit City projects, these projects will be very far from the 'point of no return' come next election. A non-endorsement by Hudak, a flat-out "no", or a vague 'promise' of support could mean this project is dead before it even gets to an EA.

 

[Northern Magus]

I want to hear Hudak's position on this before I get too excited. Unlike some Transit City projects, these projects will be very far from the 'point of no return' come next election. A non-endorsement by Hudak, a flat-out "no", or a vague 'promise' of support could mean this project is dead before it even gets to an EA.

Actually, this is quite arguably an important 905 issue: Hudak will more than likely agree to GO Transit infrastructure long before he signs off on anything related to the TTC. In terms of realpolitik, there are far more votes to be won in potentially winnable seats if he gets behind it. The last thing he would want is to hand McGuinty a beachhead issue throughout 905, especially one that would appeal to working families who are struggling with commuting times and gas costs.

All i can say is, when Ontario finally gets its rail electrification the rest of the developed world will be on to something different..

Hydrogen-powered monorail!!

 

[SlickFranky]

I want to hear Hudak's position on this before I get too excited. Unlike some Transit City projects, these projects will be very far from the 'point of no return' come next election. A non-endorsement by Hudak, a flat-out "no", or a vague 'promise' of support could mean this project is dead before it even gets to an EA.

Or alternatively, a flat-out "no" from Hudak might severly damage his support in the 905 and parts of the 519.

 

[gweed123]

Actually, this is quite arguably an important 905 issue: Hudak will more than likely agree to GO Transit infrastructure long before he signs off on anything related to the TTC. In terms of realpolitik, there are far more votes to be won in potentially winnable seats if he gets behind it. The last thing he would want is to hand McGuinty a beachhead issue throughout 905, especially one that would appeal to working families who are struggling with commuting times and gas costs.

Very true, but never underestimate the Conservatives' ability to spin reality. If they can spin building new prisons to deal with the rise in unreported crimes, and have people eat it up, they can spin anything. He could just as easily promise to take that money and put it into highway expansion, and I'm sure a lot of people would eat that up. In the Conservative world, facts and reality are only relevant if they support your ideology or will help win you votes.

 

[kd86]

why didn’t Metrolinx think of 3rd rail technology for the electrification of the GO lines. Did the study even look at that option. We could have a system similar to what we see in the Bay Area with (BART) If they’re going to make the corridor 100 percent grade separated they might as well look at the feasibility of that option.

 

[gweed123]

why didn’t Metrolinx think of 3rd rail technology for the electrification of the GO lines. Did the study even look at that option. We could have a system similar to what we see in the Bay Area with (BART) If they’re going to make the corridor 100 percent grade separated they might as well look at the feasibility of that option.

Because then you would have to have the whole corridor fenced in as well. People tend to walk along rail tracks, and an electrified 3rd rail is just an electrocution waiting to happen (even if they did deserve it).

 

[reaperexpress]

why didn’t Metrolinx think of 3rd rail technology for the electrification of the GO lines. Did the study even look at that option. We could have a system similar to what we see in the Bay Area with (BART) If they’re going to make the corridor 100 percent grade separated they might as well look at the feasibility of that option.

Yes, if you had read that part of the report, you would have noticed that they did study 3rd rail technology. They rejected it because it would have safety issues without full grade-separation and would limit trains to roughly 130km/h. In comparison, our current diesel locomotives can go 150km/h, and most North-American overhead-wire electric locomotives are capable of 200km/h.

Using 3rd rail would make the cost of electrification astronomical, and would actually slow down trains. It is far easier to make a BART-like network using overhead lines than 3rd rail, because of the lower cost, higher speed and increased flexibility.

Here's the report's summary of the option:

DC electrification using third rail at 750 V dc would be technically feasible, however the major concerns include
safety at grade crossings, a practical top speed limit of 130 km/h, requirement for substantial land taking due to
large number of substations, and the corresponding power utility interfaces required for substation spaced at
relatively short distances of approximately 1.5-2 km.

 

[doady]

Electrification is a waste of money when the Milton line has yet to be upgraded to allow for bidirectional, off-peak service. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Dan416]

Electrification is a waste of money when the Milton line has yet to be upgraded to allow for bidirectional, off-peak service. But that's just my opinion.

I kinda agree with you

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This is way too slow. SF will take faster and Chicago already has some.

 

[ShonTron]

Third rail-powered track can cross streets at grade (there's a bunch on the outer ends of each of the Pink and Brown Lines in Chicago), but it's not well suited to mainline electrification.

 

[reaperexpress]

Electrification is a waste of money when the Milton line has yet to be upgraded to allow for bidirectional, off-peak service. But that's just my opinion.

How does stopping improvements on other lines help the Milton line? From what I can tell, CP is the main reason the Milton line has such inadequate service. At least electrification and its' associated capacity and speed increases would make the Lakeshore West and Georgetown lines more viable alternatives, to compensate for the poor service.