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Minister of Science Doesn't Believe In Science

Point taken. But like I said, it's a very slippery slope to go down. We could well have folks with those views working at those very ministries right now. We don't ask them their religious views when the seek employment with the Government of Canada. That would be discrimination. All I am saying is that it's a dangerous precedent to start assessing an individual's suitability for a job based on that person's closely held religious views.

Your position is reasonable only if you are suggesting that we should be allowed discriminate for some jobs and screen out people based on their personal religious views. Although, our laws don't allow for that kind of discrimination, the political vetting process does allow for that. Perhaps, our political parties should actively discriminate when picking ministers. Some fairly blanket restrictions come to mind: No religious Christians should be Science Ministers, Muslims should not become Public Safety Ministers, and to avoid perpetuating the stereotypes we should try and keep Jews out of the Finance or Revenue portfolios, and Whites need not apply to become Immigration or Heritage Ministers. I think you get the picture of where discriminating on fairly scant evidence and based on somebody's personal religious views could lead us.

i didn't say we should ban someone from working in a field based on their religion. denying evolution is not a religion, neither is believing creationism. i never said we should ban a person from being a minister of science just because they're christian.

to answer the bolded part of your quote, that is not a fair comparison.

being christian doesn't make you anti-science (being a creationist does)

being muslim doesn't make you a terrorist or sympathetic to terrorist causes (being a member or supporter of al-qaeda does)

being jewish doesn't make a person greedy for money.

being white doesn't make you a racist (being a member of the KKK or sympathetic to that cause; does)
 
^But in this case, as I see it, that's what's happening. People assumed he was a creationist because he was Christian and because he didn't want to answer questions on his personal views to a reporter. And all of a sudden, people start calling for his head.
 
However, I do have a problem with folks who are quick to judge someone and assume they are unfit for a job simply because of the religious views they hold. I'd like to think that there are folks out there who can separate their religious and professional views.

again, it's not because he's a christian, it's because he's got a personal bias against science. you can't be a minister of science if you reject science. it's that simple. he connected his bias to religious views, nobody else did. just because you connect something to religious belief doesn't make it okay and protect it from criticism. him saying that he doesn't believe in evolution is enough for him not to be minister of science. why he doesn't believe in evolution is irrelevant.

by him bringing his christian beliefs into the sphere, it is nothing more than an attempt to seed a defense for the future "they fired me because i was a christian". get it?


and if you want to talk abut discrimination based on religion, lets talk about not allowing a child to go to a catholic elementary school because that child is not catholic. i hope you have a problem with this policy, for consistency's sake.
 
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He also has shown breathtaking lack of professionalism. He literally shouted representatives of the Canadian Association of University Teachers out of his office for daring to critique the budget, to the point where one of the minister's aides had to go and fetch the coats they had left behind.

I could see him getting canned for that kind of behaviour. But I think its suspect to fire someone based on their personal (not professional) views and beliefs.
 
^But in this case, as I see it, that's what's happening. People assumed he was a creationist because he was Christian and because he didn't want to answer questions on his personal views to a reporter. And all of a sudden, people start calling for his head.

no, according to the globe and mail, somebody asked if he believed in evolution to which he replied:

I'm not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don't think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate

that's an extremely odd way to respond to such a question.
 
^But in this case, as I see it, that's what's happening. People assumed he was a creationist because he was Christian and because he didn't want to answer questions on his personal views to a reporter. And all of a sudden, people start calling for his head.

Furthermore, he doesn't understand anything about evolution. He started mumbling something about walking on concrete and how that would cause changes that would be passed down to later generations, which is essentially the (discredited) Lamarckian theory of evolution.
 
^ Odd. But we don't normally fire people for being odd. If he has pleaded the 5th on the question, there's no fair way to say that he's a creationist for sure. But again, the questions comes up...so what if he is? Would that prevent him from being an effective Science Minister. We've had Catholic/Christian Ministers of Health who got over their religious views on abortion. That's the point I was trying to make earlier. Suggesting he should loose his job just because he might be a closet creationist is getting fairly close to suggesting for example that a religious Christian should not be Science Minister (I think it's fair to say that most religious non-Catholic Christians would not accept evolution).

I am a 'live and let live' kinda guy. So I guess for me, I could not care what his personal views are on creation. As long as he does his job at the Science Minister, he get my vote. On that note, however, he does not sound like an all together effective minister, as per Afransen's comments and he should be canned for that.
 
i'll say it again, him saying that he doesn't believe in evolution is enough for him not to be minister of science. why he doesn't believe in evolution is irrelevant.
 
It is curious though that the opposition didn't jump on this. Where's the Liberals and NDP on this issue?
 
It is curious though that the opposition didn't jump on this. Where's the Liberals and NDP on this issue?


with the economy the way it is, any politician who would take up this issue is probably afraid that they'll get blasted for not focusing on the more important issues. remember how the liberals were accused of taking the focus off of important issues with the tory religious school funding issue?

of course, this issue is related to the economy (minister of science cuts funding to research sector, and possibly because of personal views which will cost canada and reduce its competitiveness on the international stage).
 
That's an easy one though. The Catholic Church does not dispute evolution.

I'm sure o'l Ratzinger would have something to say about that. He's definitely a regressive conservative.

Anyways, Goodyear's response on Power Play only reinforces the notion that he doesn't accept evolution.

His response really had nothing to do with evolution in a scientific context.

This guy is incompetent. His whole handling of all of this has been terrible.

Marc Garneau is wrong as well. Religion has nothing to do with this.
 
Regardless of his religion, I'm inclined to believe that Mr. Goodyear, like a lot of Harper cabinet ministers, will represent Canada and Canadian interests very badly.

Imagine if they called an international conference on the state of scientific research. Do I want this guy who doesn't believe in dinosaurs sitting across the table from Obama heavyweights like Stephen Chu or Jane Lubchenco?
 
And regardless of his religion, Goodyear is, as others have mentioned, a chiropractor. He's already in woo-woo land.
 
clearly by his own words, this man is not competent enough to be minister of science. i hope that instead of scientists packing their bags and moving to the states where the funding will be that they will stay and pressure the harper government to reverse the cuts and appoint a new science minister. this is a national disgrace.


Goodyear continues to deflect questions on evolution beliefs

ANNE MCILROY and GREG MCARTHUR

Globe and Mail update

March 18, 2009 at 10:51 PM EDT

OTTAWA and TORONTO — Gary Goodyear, Canada's minister of science, trumpeted the country's scientific achievements in a speech Wednesday but found himself deflecting, for the second day in a row, questions about his commitment to the theory of evolution.

“My view isn't important. My personal beliefs are not important. What's important is that this government is doing the right thing for science and technology – to support science as we have in every single budget,†he said during a brief scrum after a speech to the Economic Club of Canada.


In an interview published in Tuesday's Globe and Mail, Mr. Goodyear declined to answer a question about whether he believes in evolution, saying that questions about his Christian faith are not appropriate. His demurral sparked a wave of concern from many prominent scientists, some of whom are smarting over federal funding cuts and see evolution as a fundamental concept.

Mr. Goodyear, the Minister of State for Science and Technology, attempted to clarify his views on the origins of humanity in a Tuesday interview on the CTV program Power Play; he said he believed in evolution. However, when he provided the show with examples of the sort of evolution he believes in, he left some experts in developmental biology wondering if he understands the concept.

“We are evolving every year, every decade,†Mr. Goodyear said on the television program. “That's a fact, whether it is to the intensity of the sun, whether it is to, as a chiropractor, walking on cement versus anything else, whether it is running shoes or high heels – of course we are evolving to our environment.â€

Brian Hall, a biology professor at Dalhousie University in Halifax and an expert on evolution, said Mr. Goodyear is mistaken.

“This is not evolution,†he said of Mr. Goodyear's examples. “The minister is confusing evolution with lifestyle adaptation,†said Prof. Hall.

“We adapt to the intensity of the sun by staying in the shade, using more sunscreen, wearing a hat. We adapt to walking on cement by wearing more comfortable shoes,†Prof. Hall said.

These are not genetic changes that are passed to the next generation, he said. They aren't going to add padding to our children's or grandchildren's feet and help them walk on concrete, or help their skin withstand more of the sun's harmful rays.

Wednesday, after repeating to reporters that he believes in evolution, Mr. Goodyear was asked to clarify how he defines the concept. He declined.

“You know, my entire background has been in science and my personal beliefs are not important – and what I'm doing, and what this government is doing to move this country forward, that's important,†said Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor by training who studied, among other things, chemistry and physics as a university undergraduate student.

Mr. Goodyear's speech highlighted the need for Canada to improve the commercialization of its many scientific discoveries, and start “moving our research from the universities and the labs to the factory floors and ultimately to the marketplace – where Canadians and people all around the world can then benefit from our discoveries.â€

Mr. Goodyear and his government have been criticized by many senior scientists for cutting $147.9-million from the three granting agencies that fund research at Canadian universities.

The scientists say the cuts, announced in the January budget, exacerbated a funding crunch that has left many top people hunting for operating funds to continue their research.

But Mr. Goodyear says those cuts were one part of a budget that also offered a lot of new cash for science, including $750-million for the Canadian Foundation for Innovation, which helps scientists buy expensive equipment.

There was also $2-billion for infrastructure at Canadian universities, which will go to fixing leaking roofs and other repairs and infrastructure projects. Mr. Goodyear says that money will help scientists and stimulate the economy.

But scientists remain critical of the lack of funding in the budget for the basic, curiosity-driven research that history shows leads to important discoveries. They argue they have great labs and equipment, but need the operating funds to do their work.

In the United States, President Barack Obama has put $10-billion in medical research, and many researchers fear the top Canadians will move there.


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