Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[accura407]

OK but Sheppard isnt that wide. Thats more like putting stations in the middle of the Allen. How did that turn out? BTW i edited my last post if you didnt see it

Actually, Sheppard has the same ROW but obviously...yes it isn't that wide at the moment. But that is BESIDES the point

Born and raised Torontonian, only left the city recently. I am very well aware of the differences between the two... I personally believe that Toronto is too idealistic in that it pretends to think that the suburbs of Scarborough, Etobicoke, and North York are dense urban cities like Toronto but in reality they are closer in built form to places like Calgary...

While Calgary builds its LRT in a utilitarian realistic model - knowing full well what the reality is!
Toronto proposes an LRT that does not belong in the setting it places it along.... This is exactly why there is so much outrage and anger for Transit City!

If a Calgary style LRT - 36st NE line is a perfect example https://maps.google.ca/?ll=51.06135...d=oNsW_gFV7pIV_SVDFNJZbQ&cbp=12,153.1,,0,0.06
- was built along Finch Avenue, I think there would be more support! The stations are far apart, and the line doesn't completely overhaul the area and try to make it something it isn't!

Rapid Transit in the suburbs should be RAPID. Stop spacing should be closer to Sheppard Subway or Yonge Subway levels - not Bloor-Danforth spacing!

It's obviously no wonder the suburbs of 416 Toronto are so frustrated! They just want to get around the city quickly and downtown planners propose transit that belongs in dense older areas along St. Clair West.

 

[sixrings]

Like I said you should be advocating for more toronto GO stations with regular operations versus a handful of times a day. Direct your issues to the province because they are the ones who control go and are the ones who are not jumping at the opportunity to add stations. There is nothing the TTC can do about a GO issue.

 

[BurlOak]

OK but Sheppard isnt that wide. Thats more like putting stations in the middle of the Allen. How did that turn out? BTW i edited my last post if you didnt see it

That looks quite similar to Eglinton and maybe even Sheppard if the LRT would have a nearside/farside stop so that both stops are on the same side of the intersection. The ramps to get up to high floor level would be parallel to traffic, so no extra width is needed compared to a low floor system. It just means the stop (station) would be an extra few metres from the intersection.

 

[sixrings]

That looks quite similar to Eglinton and maybe even Sheppard if the LRT would have a nearside/farside stop so that both stops are on the same side of the intersection. The ramps to get up to high floor level would be parallel to traffic, so no extra width is needed compared to a low floor system. It just means the stop (station) would be an extra few metres from the intersection.

can you please rotate the man on google maps towards the only buildings in site on that google map and then keep zooming in and you will realize how big of a road that is and how similar it is to the allen and how far it is away from the actual city. Even in the remote parts of sheppard there are mid rises... this is nothing like sheppard... It may appear like the small section from jane to scarlette road on Eglinton because of the golf course but thats about it.

https://maps.google.ca/?ll=51.04174...=1n_pFJvNptLp1ww1NVJemA&cbp=12,273.09,,0,4.68

 

[cbrown2009]

The stop spacing indicated in Transit City called for stops around 500 metres apart. If you look at Spadina or St. Clair, the stops are 100-200 metres apart. Modern subway stations are more like 1000-1200m apart. Given the existing built form around some of those suburban streets, 500m seems like a good starting point for stop spacing. Major intersections are served as well as a midpoint station within each of those large blocks. 500m spacing gives a decent catchment area for each station for walkup and serving those suburban neighbourhoods etc. Also, if the station spacing gets too wide, a bus service would have to be maintained to fill in those large gaps, like the 97 on Yonge & the service planned for the X-town's underground section on Eglinton.
Going high floor or low floor isn't an important point, except that low floor stations are probably a little easier to build & maintain.
Stations placed far side-far side would seem to take up less room than one centre platform, which would have to be wider than one directional station platforms. Just some observations looking at the Calgary application vs Transit City.

 

[Forgotten]

At least someone at the Star is willing to criticize the Sheppard LRT and the excessive numbers of transfers caused by this proposal. http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...h_is_worse_than_any_of_the_options_james.html

Royson James just returned another kickoff for a 99-yard touchdown!

In 2010 he had the courage to make the historic call to arms imploring taxpayers to rise up and take back City Hall by putting the chains of office on Rob Ford—that call was answered.

Now in 2014 he returns to lead a new charge. The future will show James is on the right side of history once again.

 

[ehlow]

The stop spacing indicated in Transit City called for stops around 500 metres apart. If you look at Spadina or St. Clair, the stops are 100-200 metres apart. Modern subway stations are more like 1000-1200m apart. Given the existing built form around some of those suburban streets, 500m seems like a good starting point for stop spacing. Major intersections are served as well as a midpoint station within each of those large blocks. 500m spacing gives a decent catchment area for each station for walkup and serving those suburban neighbourhoods etc. Also, if the station spacing gets too wide, a bus service would have to be maintained to fill in those large gaps, like the 97 on Yonge & the service planned for the X-town's underground section on Eglinton.
Going high floor or low floor isn't an important point, except that low floor stations are probably a little easier to build & maintain.
Stations placed far side-far side would seem to take up less room than one centre platform, which would have to be wider than one directional station platforms. Just some observations looking at the Calgary application vs Transit City.

Yes, the stop spacing for the LRTs is usually at least double the current local surface bus or streetcars. Current bus routes often have 200m spacing in the suburbs.

By comparison, much of the Bloor subway has 600-800m spacing, Yonge north of St Clair has 1-2km spacing, south of St Clair 450-700m.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Eglinton-Lawrence, Lawrence-York Mills, and York Mills-Sheppard is 2.1km. (a standard concession) the longest distance between stops on the subway is Kennedy-Warden, 2.4km. Soon it will be Kennedy-Lawrence East, at 3.4km. St.Clair West-Eglinton West is also something like 2.3km.

 

[ehlow]

Eglinton-Lawrence, Lawrence-York Mills, and York Mills-Sheppard is 2.1km. (a standard concession) the longest distance between stops on the subway is Kennedy-Warden, 2.4km. Soon it will be Kennedy-Lawrence East, at 3.4km. St.Clair West-Eglinton West is also something like 2.3km.

Yeah and it's a long walk to the subway for those say half way between Eglinton and Lawrence in the cold winter.

North of Eglinton on Yonge would be 2km stop spacing exactly, except that North York Centre was added between Finch & Sheppard.

 

[drum118]

The reason Calgary and Edmonton have high floor LRT, there was no such thing as lowfloor cars when they built their systems in the 80's.

Both systems could have converted to lowfloor cars as new lines were built and the existing fleet was to be replace. It would mean taking a line out of service to lower the existing platforms and that has been done on a few systems that had highfloor cars. Its is the cost to do it as well the will power.

By right, stops should be every 500m unless there is a need to be more. Fine if you live on the line itself and a health person, but most don't live on the line with a higher number not being health to walk the extra 500-1500m to a stop.

You try walking 1,500m on a -20+ day without the wind blowing and no snow fall. You will see it not nice to do it on a daily base. Then try it on a windy snowy days as well and your tune will turn.

 

[Dan416]

When it comes to something like the BD Extension, most people are getting to the stations by bus anyway so the stop distance isn't really important.

 

[Rainforest]

Interestingly, stop spacing is quite uneven across the TTC network, even for the same type routes.

For the Eglinton West bus, Bathurst is the 11-th stop after Yonge (average spacing 190 m). But for the Steeles West bus, Bathurst is the 6-th stop after Yonge (average 350 m).

For Finch West LRT, stops are planned at major arterials, plus two mid-block stops per block. That comes to 670 m average, which seems reasonable to me.

But for Sheppard East LRT, 670 m average is not possible, because the major north-south arterials are 800 m apart from Pharmacy to McCowan. You have to choose either 800 m (at major arterials only) or 400 m (one mid-block stop in between). The planners chose 400 m and no parallel bus service; and that decision is debatable.

 

[kEiThZ]

Like I said you should be advocating for more toronto GO stations with regular operations versus a handful of times a day. Direct your issues to the province because they are the ones who control go and are the ones who are not jumping at the opportunity to add stations. There is nothing the TTC can do about a GO issue.

This post typifies the problems with transit in Toronto. Artificial jurisdictional boundaries and the bun fights that result.

The mentality is what saps me of hope that the GTA will ever have transit adequate enough to avoid car dependency.

 

[ehlow]

Interestingly, stop spacing is quite uneven across the TTC network, even for the same type routes.

For the Eglinton West bus, Bathurst is the 11-th stop after Yonge (average spacing 190 m). But for the Steeles West bus, Bathurst is the 6-th stop after Yonge (average 350 m).

For Finch West LRT, stops are planned at major arterials, plus two mid-block stops per block. That comes to 670 m average, which seems reasonable to me.

But for Sheppard East LRT, 670 m average is not possible, because the major north-south arterials are 800 m apart from Pharmacy to McCowan. You have to choose either 800 m (at major arterials only) or 400 m (one mid-block stop in between). The planners chose 400 m and no parallel bus service; and that decision is debatable.

I agree Finch West seems fine at 670m.

For Sheppard, even 400m with one mid-block stop seems like quite a difference from the current bus which seems to be two mid-block stops, so about 267m.

I think closer stop spacing can be appropriate depending what type of service you want to provide, and the nature of the streets. Anything greater than 400-500m seems like it would go a decent speed. Anything less than 300m seems close to me, with <200m seeming unreasonable, and most of the current bus & streetcar routes fall under that.

Of course, speed is only one factor, reliability and frequency are just as important, which should be much better for the LRTs than the current buses since they have their own ROW, and less dwell time due to all door boarding and POP.

 

[Palma]

Interestingly, stop spacing is quite uneven across the TTC network, even for the same type routes.

For the Eglinton West bus, Bathurst is the 11-th stop after Yonge (average spacing 190 m). But for the Steeles West bus, Bathurst is the 6-th stop after Yonge (average 350 m).

For Finch West LRT, stops are planned at major arterials, plus two mid-block stops per block. That comes to 670 m average, which seems reasonable to me.

But for Sheppard East LRT, 670 m average is not possible, because the major north-south arterials are 800 m apart from Pharmacy to McCowan. You have to choose either 800 m (at major arterials only) or 400 m (one mid-block stop in between). The planners chose 400 m and no parallel bus service; and that decision is debatable.

11 stops on Eglinton west from Yonge is crazy. Its the same with St Clair west and all those stops for the streetcars and all those stoplights in general even for cars