Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[nfitz]

I think delaying the SELRT makes sense since the last thing the province wants is to start on the project and having to cancel it again due to a pro Subway candidate winning the election in 2014.

Given that neither Metrolinx nor TTC is talking about delaying SELRT past the 2014 election, I'm not sure what your referring to.

Under Metrolinx's plan the Sheppard East maintenance facility get's awarded in early 2013, so there'd be over 18 months of construction already by the time of the election. Both the Sheppard LRT and the SRT upgrade will be tendered and awarded before the election as well. And Metrolinx has also said they want to tender the eastern piece of Sheppard from Progress to Conlins ahead of that, so they can have some track early to test the LRVs on. TTC's proposal is to move even faster than this on Sheppard and Finch.

I don't see how a pro-Subway candidate would have much bearing on the whole thing at this stage. Much bigger risk is that if the McGuinty government were to fall before the 2015 provincial election.

 

[Solid Snake]

Given that neither Metrolinx nor TTC is talking about delaying SELRT past the 2014 election, I'm not sure what your referring to.

Under Metrolinx's plan the Sheppard East maintenance facility get's awarded in early 2013, so there'd be over 18 months of construction already by the time of the election. Both the Sheppard LRT and the SRT upgrade will be tendered and awarded before the election as well. And Metrolinx has also said they want to tender the eastern piece of Sheppard from Progress to Conlins ahead of that, so they can have some track early to test the LRVs on. TTC's proposal is to move even faster than this on Sheppard and Finch.

I don't see how a pro-Subway candidate would have much bearing on the whole thing at this stage. Much bigger risk is that if the McGuinty government were to fall before the 2015 provincial election.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...upplementary_Reports/Presentation_LRT_Pro.pdf

p.7 to 9

Metrolinx schedule says

Sheppard East LRT:
• Proceed with Infrastructure Ontario delivery.
• Anticipate award of contract by late 2014.
• Projected in-service date 2018.

TTC disagrees but the lines are own and build by the province. It makes sense that the province is not interested to have the transit battle round 2 on their hands

 

[nfitz]

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com...upplementary_Reports/Presentation_LRT_Pro.pdf

p.7 to 9

Metrolinx schedule says

Sheppard East LRT:
• Proceed with Infrastructure Ontario delivery.
• Anticipate award of contract by late 2014.
• Projected in-service date 2018.

That doesn't include the carhouse, which will be a separate contract starting in the first part of 2013. Also, there's a mention on page 7 of the Metrolinx report (page 24 of the PDF) that the Sheppard East track from Progress to Conlins will be built as part of the Scarborough RT project, and will be subject to "Separate early works as Design-Bid-Build (DBB)"

The project will be well advanced by the time the next mayor is installed in December 2014.

 

[Solid Snake]

That doesn't include the carhouse, which will be a separate contract starting in the first part of 2013. Also, there's a mention on page 7 of the Metrolinx report (page 24 of the PDF) that the Sheppard East track from Progress to Conlins will be built as part of the Scarborough RT project, and will be subject to "Separate early works as Design-Bid-Build (DBB)"

The project will be well advanced by the time the next mayor is installed in December 2014.

I'm not against Sheppard East LRT being build. I would be against Ford destroying Transit City but it could definitely be improved and I expect that mayoral candidates will offer a compromise to win Scarborough's vote.

I think Agincourt should be the Terminal station for both the Subway and LRT. The subway could be extended south to STC when more funds are made available. Revenue tools for transit is just a matter of time.

 

[nfitz]

I think Agincourt should be the Terminal station for both the Subway and LRT. The subway could be extended south to STC when more funds are made available. Revenue tools for transit is just a matter of time.

But where would you get the funds to extend it to Agincourt? That would be over a 5 km extension, compared to the just 1.8 km to get it to Victoria Park.

And then you'd have to pay huge penalties to get out of the existing contracts. Not sure why any mayoral candidate would promote such an absurd idea.

 

[Solid Snake]

But where would you get the funds to extend it to Agincourt? That would be over a 5 km extension, compared to the just 1.8 km to get it to Victoria Park.

Revenue tools

And then you'd have to pay huge penalties to get out of the existing contracts. Not sure why any mayoral candidate would promote such an absurd idea.

To win votes

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Solid Snake:

Since we all agreed DRL is the priority at the moment, as per this thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/5714-Transit-City-Plan/page548 - I don't really see the benefit of reopening the Sheppard issue in the timeframe you indicated.

AoD

 

[Solid Snake]

Solid Snake:

Since we all agreed DRL is the priority at the moment, as per this thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/5714-Transit-City-Plan/page548 - I don't really see the benefit of reopening the Sheppard issue in the timeframe you indicated.

AoD

Why not? because you disagree with it? When the MOU was signed, those advocating for transit City's return certainly didn't stay quiet.

If Adam Vaughan or a pro LRT candidate wins 2014, then I'll be the first one asking you to close the Sheppard East subway thread. Until then, it's still a possibility just like the return of Transit City was a possibility when Ford was stubbornly avoiding to have the MOU endorsed by city council.

I respect that you hate the idea of a pro subway mayor in 2014 but respect the idea that not all of us think that SELRT is the idea of the century.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Of course that's well within your prerogative, but I found the whole juxtapositioning you applied in the other thread interesting. The Trojan Horse comes to mind. In any case, we will have to agree to disagree.

As to pro/anti-LRT mayor - clearly, it doesn't mean much unless there is a profound shift at the council level, as per the experience from the past year.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

I respect that you hate the idea of a pro subway mayor in 2014 but respect the idea that not all of us think that SELRT is the idea of the century.

I'd love to see another pro-subway mayor like David Miller in 2014, who had the balls to put Toronto's up to pay for subway expansion.

The problem with Ford is he's not really pro-subway. He was given a detailed roadmap on how Toronto could build the Sheppard subway with various funding mechanisms, and he ran away scared.

We need a real pro-subway mayor who will build the DRL and extend Yonge, and build subway where we need it, rather than where we don't.

To win votes

This is the problem. Ford lied through his teeth to win votes. He had his chance to build Sheppard, and he screwed it up beyond belief. I don't think Scarberians are dumb enough to fall for that one again in majority numbers.

 

[Paleo]

The subway could be extended south to STC when more funds are made available. Revenue tools for transit is just a matter of time.

Why? I listed in the other thread at least half a dozen things that would probably be a better use of funds than to do what you suggest within a 50 year time horizon.

 

[GenerationW]

I'd love to see another pro-subway mayor like David Miller in 2014, who had the balls to put Toronto's up to pay for subway expansion.

Back in his first term when Miller was enthusiastically and explicitly for the Sheppard subway extension before he was against it, his balls lobbied hard for Sheppard in 2003. Two years later, his balls were crushed by York Region et al.

Not unlike how Ford's Sheppard dreams have been crushed.

The problem with Ford is he's not really pro-subway. He was given a detailed roadmap on how Toronto could build the Sheppard subway with various funding mechanisms, and he ran away scared.

His problem is that he's a stubborn fool and a lousy politician. He could have put the M.O.U. up for a vote last year (and probably won), or taken the Stintz compromise from early this year and ran with it.

He had his chance to build Sheppard, and he screwed it up beyond belief. I don't think Scarberians are dumb enough to fall for that one again in majority numbers.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I say he's got Scarborough sewn up if he runs again.

 

[kEiThZ]

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I say he's got Scarborough sewn up if he runs again.

Sadly, I agree with this.

If you're a Scarborough resident, the Sheppard and Eglinton LRTs won't do much for you unless you live within walking distance of those lines. The RT refurbishment won't do much either. And the transition is going to be brutal. There is political hay to be made here.

I do believe that Ford should have taken the Stintz compromise.

 

[Paleo]

Sadly, I agree with this.

If you're a Scarborough resident, the Sheppard and Eglinton LRTs won't do much for you unless you live within walking distance of those lines. The RT refurbishment won't do much either. And the transition is going to be brutal. There is political hay to be made here.

By that logic, the only transit that does anything is the local bus. Why bother having anything else? RT refurbishment isn't starting until after the election.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Sadly, I agree with this.

If you're a Scarborough resident, the Sheppard and Eglinton LRTs won't do much for you unless you live within walking distance of those lines. The RT refurbishment won't do much either. And the transition is going to be brutal. There is political hay to be made here.

I do believe that Ford should have taken the Stintz compromise.

It would be worse if it were a heavy rail Subway since there would be less access to residents within walking distance. At least with the LRT, there would be more residents within walking distance.