Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[1overcosc]

Ottawa has both regular and express fares on buses depending on the route and the Presto system there has no problem figuring out what bus it's on and what fare to charge. Not sure what's wrong with the TTC.

 

[Megaton327]

Everything is guess work right now. The machine is automated and guesses what direction and what route it's on based on GPS location. It's only programmed to either deduct regular fare or accept a transfer. The driver has no idea if you paid or transferred. It makes short stop overs possible. You can't control to pay another fare either (for the honest folk that doesn't want to violate the transfer rule).

That's incorrect--TTC transfers with Presto are not based on GPS location, it's a free 2-hour timed transfer with an exclusion where tapping twice consecutively on the same route charges a second fare. This would not be possible using GPS to set a route. For instance, 509/510 and 509/511 have some overlap, and there are many other places that buses or streetcars have overlapping routes, not to mention detours.

The Presto unit does have a route number set, but it is not based on a "GPS guess". That would be plainly evident in that about 50% of transfers on downtown streetcar routes would be processed incorrectly and result in double-charged customers, which does not happen.

 

[nfitz]

That's incorrect--TTC transfers with Presto are not based on GPS location, it's a free 2-hour timed transfer with an exclusion where tapping twice consecutively on the same route charges a second fare.

Then why have I had so many transfers that I've been charged for, when I have changed between 2 different routes? In each case, either the vehicle was off-route, had just turned into service (from a 506 to a 505 on Broadview for example, that had come down Gerrard rather than Broadview), or where the summary showed that the GPS thought I was in a very different place than I was?

One interesting example, was a Flexity heading east on King, which I knew was a 510 returning to Leslie, and the sign said 501 on it. But the transfer I grabbed, had 504 on it. When I transferred from this 510 signed as a 501 to a 504 at Broadview/Queen, I got dinged again.

For instance, 509/510 and 509/511 have some overlap, and there are many other places that buses or streetcars have overlapping routes, not to mention detours.

Are you always getting successful transfer on your Presto during detours?

The Presto unit does have a route number set, but it is not based on a "GPS guess". That would be plainly evident in that about 50% of transfers on downtown streetcar routes would be processed incorrectly and result in double-charged customers, which does not happen.

I'm frequently double-charged - though I don't know why you'd think it would be 50% Presumably the GPS guess is right most of the time.

 

[Steve X]

That's incorrect--TTC transfers with Presto are not based on GPS location, it's a free 2-hour timed transfer with an exclusion where tapping twice consecutively on the same route charges a second fare. This would not be possible using GPS to set a route. For instance, 509/510 and 509/511 have some overlap, and there are many other places that buses or streetcars have overlapping routes, not to mention detours.

The Presto unit does have a route number set, but it is not based on a "GPS guess". That would be plainly evident in that about 50% of transfers on downtown streetcar routes would be processed incorrectly and result in double-charged customers, which does not happen.

The new cars on the 509 issues 511 transfers along Fleet St and 510 transfer along QQ. I'm not sure if things have changed recently. It's pretty obviously it's based on GPS location. Otherwise you can let me know how anyone can input a route number to those machines.

Ottawa has both regular and express fares on buses depending on the route and the Presto system there has no problem figuring out what bus it's on and what fare to charge. Not sure what's wrong with the TTC.

Funny thing Ottawa is doing away this premium fare. Other transit systems can control their presto machines. TTC can't at the moment.

 

[cplchanb]

Ottawa has both regular and express fares on buses depending on the route and the Presto system there has no problem figuring out what bus it's on and what fare to charge. Not sure what's wrong with the TTC.

Same with YRT. Is this another unsurprising case of TTC trying to reinvent the wheel???

 

[nfitz]

Other transit systems can control their presto machines. TTC can't at the moment.

At this stage in the process, it's still in the hands of TTC's subcontractor. This is an agency called Metrolinx. Perhaps they don't understand how Presto works.

Same with YRT. Is this another unsurprising case of TTC trying to reinvent the wheel???

What is surprising, is that you are blaming TTC for a Metrolinx issue.

 

[cplchanb]

What is surprising, is that you are blaming TTC for a Metrolinx issue.

While I'm not squarely blaming TTC can you explain how all other agencies have been able to successfully implement Presto and only TTC have lingering issues?
TTC is equally at fault for sitting on their hands and blaming the other party at the expense of millions of riders instead of trying to find a solution collectively as quickly as possible. I agree Presto and ML isnt as well run as it couldve been but to say its not our fault and be slow and hesitant to accommodate doesnt help one bit

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

While I'm not squarely blaming TTC can you explain how all other agencies have been able to successfully implement Presto and only TTC have lingering issues?
TTC is equally at fault for sitting on their hands and blaming the other party at the expense of millions of riders instead of trying to find a solution collectively as quickly as possible. I agree Presto and ML isnt as well run as it couldve been but to say its not our fault and be slow and hesitant to accommodate doesnt help one bit

You must contradicted yourself within the same posting. I mean, are there any concrete examples of TTC sitting on their hands right now regarding this file, after the commitment by the board to go full Presto? The issues they are having right now looks like debugging to me.

AoD

 

[cplchanb]

You must contradicted yourself within the same posting. I mean, are there any concrete examples of TTC sitting on their hands right now regarding this file, after the commitment by the board to go full Presto? The issues they are having right now looks like debugging to me.

AoD

TTC only agreed to presto after years of pressure. have you forgotten the giambrone days where they went rogue by developing a metropass and open payment reader for their buses? They are only implementing it in 2017 while all others have had it for half a decade....

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TTC only agreed to presto after years of pressure. have you forgotten the giambrone days where they went rogue by developing a metropass and open payment reader for their buses?

That's years ago - that's why I've said right now - once there was board commitment to full system Presto rollout. I thought the pace was acceptable after that point. Not surprised by the teething problems with transfers, GPS, etc - complexity and scale is at play. They will just have to debug it.

AoD

 

[rbt]

TTC only agreed to presto after years of pressure. have you forgotten the giambrone days where they went rogue by developing a metropass and open payment reader for their buses? They are only implementing it in 2017 while all others have had it for half a decade....

Based on what Metrolinx wants to charge other transit agencies (like Ottawa), TTC probably should have followed through on that tender Giambrone issued. The renewal agreement will be very interesting to watch.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Based on what Metrolinx wants to charge other transit agencies (like Ottawa), TTC probably should have followed through on that tender Giambrone issued. The renewal agreement will be very interesting to watch.

Who owns the product? If it isn't Accenture, could they have bring it in house?

AoD

 

[rbt]

Who owns the product? If it isn't Accenture, could they have bring it in house?

Great question. I'm not sure if it's Metrolinx or Accenture; but we know that it isn't the municipal carriers who are currently negotiating their renewals and finding the price has nearly tripled.

 

[Steve X]

Great question. I'm not sure if it's Metrolinx or Accenture; but we know that it isn't the municipal carriers who are currently negotiating their renewals and finding the price has nearly tripled.

I'm pretty sure Metrolinx owns the rights to the product in Canada. Accenture can sell parts of the product in other countries such as Washington DC's new fare card system. Although they seem to be having quite a lot of trouble with it.

 

[nfitz]

While I'm not squarely blaming TTC can you explain how all other agencies have been able to successfully implement Presto and only TTC have lingering issues?

Mostly a 6 year headstart. TTC didn't agree to implement Presto until late 2012, rather than late 2006.

Recall it took almost 5 years before the other local agencies even started rolling out Presto - TTC is still at the 3.5 year mark. Ottawa took OVER 5 years to even start rolling out.

And we are yet to see reload machines for any of the other local agencies.

Also, Metrolinx agreed to install a much more complex transfer system for Presto than anywhere else - and so far they have failed.

TTC is equally at fault for sitting on their hands and blaming the other party at the expense of millions of riders instead of trying to find a solution collectively as quickly as possible.

To what? Metrolinx has until mid-2017 to get the bugs out, and implement all the detail. Not sure what TTC could do until that time.