Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Megaton327]

I think what they should do is have away thath Metropass holders can put their pass onto a presto card either buy just mailing the subscribers one with their pass on it along with the next months pass and for those thath buy them at sations or elsewhere maybe allow them to input the pass number into the preto website to add it to their card. That way they could have metropass holders using them so they can get an ida of how many of them will switch to them.

What you've described is how Presto works. You digitally put your monthly pass onto the card (except systems that use automated capping, like GO).

If I'm understanding the rest of what you wrote correctly, you're suggesting that some number be printed on physical Metropasses, and when you enter that number you get a TTC monthly pass loaded onto your Presto card--that absolutely will not happen, because then the TTC is handing out free passes, as entering that number on Presto's website would still leave you with your usable Metropass that you could give to somebody else to use.

As for mailing subscribers one, I'm not sure why they would do that when you can load the pass yourself online. Why get a new presto card every month? If you mean just the first time to get them onto it, 1) not all metropass users subscribe to the MDP, and that excludes token/ticket users too, 2) many MDP metropass users may already have a presto card, and 3) that would cost the TTC a minimum of $16 per person ($6 for the card plus the $10 minimum e-purse balance load). It would be a good idea, with the last couple of mail-outs under the program, to send a single instructional card informing MDP subscribers that the Metropass is being discontinued and to visit ttc.ca and prestocard.ca for more information on loading a pass onto Presto, but that will be the extent of it.

Also, the TTC has no need to get an idea of how many people will switch to Presto. The answer is everybody who doesn't want to pay $3.25 cash, since the TTC has already decided to eliminate tickets, tokens, and physical Metropasses as of 2017.

 

[Steve X]

What you've described is how Presto works. You digitally put your monthly pass onto the card (except systems that use automated capping, like GO).

If I'm understanding the rest of what you wrote correctly, you're suggesting that some number be printed on physical Metropasses, and when you enter that number you get a TTC monthly pass loaded onto your Presto card--that absolutely will not happen, because then the TTC is handing out free passes, as entering that number on Presto's website would still leave you with your usable Metropass that you could give to somebody else to use.

As for mailing subscribers one, I'm not sure why they would do that when you can load the pass yourself online. Why get a new presto card every month? If you mean just the first time to get them onto it, 1) not all metropass users subscribe to the MDP, and that excludes token/ticket users too, 2) many MDP metropass users may already have a presto card, and 3) that would cost the TTC a minimum of $16 per person ($6 for the card plus the $10 minimum e-purse balance load). It would be a good idea, with the last couple of mail-outs under the program, to send a single instructional card informing MDP subscribers that the Metropass is being discontinued and to visit ttc.ca and prestocard.ca for more information on loading a pass onto Presto, but that will be the extent of it.

Also, the TTC has no need to get an idea of how many people will switch to Presto. The answer is everybody who doesn't want to pay $3.25 cash, since the TTC has already decided to eliminate tickets, tokens, and physical Metropasses as of 2017.

TTC is going to cap the maximum charge to a presto card to the price of a metropass. They will also cap the total of one day to the cost of a day pass. They don't plan to rip people off. TTC is aware that they will loose money cause 5.25% of the $2.90 will end up going to presto. That's about 15 cents instead of the ~8 cents to sort money and redistribute a token. That's something they'll have to figure where to get the money back like getting rid of collectors and vending machines.

Since they are going to cap the card, the whole concept of metropass might as well disappear. There is no need to load a pass on the card cause that would no beneficial to riders. TTC's cash flow will be balanced out oppose to getting most of the profit at the end of the month.

Daypasses and that app would disappeared too. There is no way to get in the subway with an app.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

TTC is going to cap the maximum charge to a presto card to the price of a metropass. They will also cap the total of one day to the cost of a day pass. They don't plan to rip people off. TTC is aware that they will loose money cause 5.25% of the $2.90 will end up going to presto. That's about 15 cents instead of the ~8 cents to sort money and redistribute a token. That's something they'll have to figure where to get the money back like getting rid of collectors and vending machines.

Do we actually know that that's how its going to work, capping the amount seems more of an interim solution then an actual one. Other transit systems using preto have the ability to add a pass to the card that allows unlimited use of it for that period why wouldn't the TTC do that

 

[Megaton327]

TTC is going to cap the maximum charge to a presto card to the price of a metropass. They will also cap the total of one day to the cost of a day pass.

Do you have a source on that? They have confirmed daily caps but I do not recall them ever confirming it for monthly passes--last I heard that was still up for board consideration in the future.

Do we actually know that that's how its going to work, capping the amount seems more of an interim solution then an actual one. Other transit systems using preto have the ability to add a pass to the card that allows unlimited use of it for that period why wouldn't the TTC do that

I don't consider it an interim solution at all. It's a fare policy decision. GO Transit, for instance, does monthly capping. In fact it's widely agreed that monthly capping is much better from a customer perspective, because you simply stop paying once you take a number of trips equivalent to what a pass would be, instead of having to weigh the likeliness of that at the start of each month. Some transit systems use pre-purchased/loaded passes, others use capping; this is true with Presto, and other electronic farecards around the world.

 

[nfitz]

Do you have a source on that? They have confirmed daily caps but I do not recall them ever confirming it for monthly passes--last I heard that was still up for board consideration in the future.

They haven't announced any monthly capping. I think someone is pulling that one out of their imagination.

Does Presto even support simultaneously doing capping on 2 different time periods?

 

[Steve X]

They haven't announced any monthly capping. I think someone is pulling that one out of their imagination.

Does Presto even support simultaneously doing capping on 2 different time periods?

Yeah, you're right. I thought I read that they'll cap the month too but that decision wasn't made yet. Sorry to get you guys excited.

Right now I doubt they can cap both periods but I don't think it's that difficult to implement that.

 

[BurlOak]

I had a Presto card with $10 left on it and occasionally use GO. I find out at the last minute that I have to use GO, so I load some money on the card. I take GO in the morning ok (I guess the $10 covered it), but when returning at lunch I had a problem. When I scan my card the Presto machine gives me an angry beep and some message that I couldn't read without my glasses. Apparently, the money does not show up for 24 hours. So it appears that I rode the return leg for free. About two months later I use GO again and when I swiped my card I got another angry beep from the Presto machine. Now I had a bit of time before train departure so I went and bought a paper ticket. Apparently, if you do not use the card within a month of reloading, then the reloading is reversed.

The website says that you can load money and then check your balance and that will process the preload. So I loaded some more money on the card and went to the Library to check the balance. This did not seem to work. When meeting a guest on Via, I again checked the balance at the GO station and the money still didn't show up on the card. The ticket attendant said he couldn't put money on the card and that I should call Presto. Talking with them, they said I checked the balance on the wrong type of machine and there was a correct machine where it would work about 20 minute drive away from me. So I had to let this preload expire as well.

The next time I had a few days notice before using GO again, so I was finally able to put some money on the card. What a lousy system!

 

[Megaton327]

I had a Presto card with $10 left on it and occasionally use GO. I find out at the last minute that I have to use GO, so I load some money on the card. I take GO in the morning ok (I guess the $10 covered it), but when returning at lunch I had a problem. When I scan my card the Presto machine gives me an angry beep and some message that I couldn't read without my glasses. Apparently, the money does not show up for 24 hours. So it appears that I rode the return leg for free. About two months later I use GO again and when I swiped my card I got another angry beep from the Presto machine. Now I had a bit of time before train departure so I went and bought a paper ticket. Apparently, if you do not use the card within a month of reloading, then the reloading is reversed.

The website says that you can load money and then check your balance and that will process the preload. So I loaded some more money on the card and went to the Library to check the balance. This did not seem to work. When meeting a guest on Via, I again checked the balance at the GO station and the money still didn't show up on the card. The ticket attendant said he couldn't put money on the card and that I should call Presto. Talking with them, they said I checked the balance on the wrong type of machine and there was a correct machine where it would work about 20 minute drive away from me. So I had to let this preload expire as well.

The next time I had a few days notice before using GO again, so I was finally able to put some money on the card. What a lousy system!

It clearly states the minimum 24 hour/maximum 30 day window online. This is very clearly spelt out on their site, when reloading, and in the confirmation e-mail.

Also, if you reload in person with a GO ticket attendant it's instant. If you use a self-serve reload kiosk it's instant. If you use autoload it's instant.

If you reload online and simply read the instructions, and manage to somehow plan your life 24 hours in advance, there's no issue.

I can't believe people are still complaining about the 24 hour delay. There are 2 ways to do it instantly in person, plus autoload, and as an adult one should really be able to read a webpage and plan one's life 24 hours ahead. "What a lousy system"? Grow up.

 

[Evening]

It clearly states the minimum 24 hour/maximum 30 day window online. This is very clearly spelt out on their site, when reloading, and in the confirmation e-mail.

Also, if you reload in person with a GO ticket attendant it's instant. If you use a self-serve reload kiosk it's instant. If you use autoload it's instant.

If you reload online and simply read the instructions, and manage to somehow plan your life 24 hours in advance, there's no issue.

I can't believe people are still complaining about the 24 hour delay. There are 2 ways to do it instantly in person, plus autoload, and as an adult one should really be able to read a webpage and plan one's life 24 hours ahead. "What a lousy system"? Grow up.

To be fair, the 24 hour delay is lousy. I heard before that in Ottawa, they have their PRESTO system connected to cellular data so it updates every 4 hours (which is apparently how often PRESTO updates even when it is constantly connected to the network). If that is possible, then why not increase the frequency of the updates to every minute? I guess it would cost too much for them in data? It would make the system much more user friendly.

 

[Megaton327]

To be fair, the 24 hour delay is lousy. I heard before that in Ottawa, they have their PRESTO system connected to cellular data so it updates every 4 hours (which is apparently how often PRESTO updates even when it is constantly connected to the network). If that is possible, then why not increase the frequency of the updates to every minute? I guess it would cost too much for them in data? It would make the system much more user friendly.

I definitely agree that it would be nice if all reloads were instant (or 1 minute). However, it's not the case. I understand people wishing it were instant, but if you look at people tweeting the @PrestoCard twitter account, lots of people contacting TTC/GO, and people commenting online here and elsewhere, it's a constant chorus of "why isn't my money on my card? I loaded it 30 minutes ago online and didn't read any of the instructions or my confirmation e-mail, so you need to fix it!" and "why are there absolutely ZERO ways for me to instantly load my card? Oh no, even if I'm at the station complaining to your staff about my card anyways, there's no way I can do the load with them or use a kiosk!"

If it's tiring for me, Presto's customer service reps must be saints.

 

[dowlingm]

Was at Davisville subway on Sunday. Upper level machine seemed frozen - did not react to my presto being dropped in. Lower level machine (beside elevator) looked like it was going to complete the transaction and then aborted. Can't check the receipt for a reason if it doesn't print one. Fortunately I had enough credit to get home.

Whatever was going on with the upper level one was fixed because it allowed me to load money this morning. Not very inspiring though.

 

[NotMathematical]

At best, PRESTO processes your load in about 30 minutes, but that's only for the Self-Serve Reload Machine and UP Express Fare Payment readers. I just hope they replace all the GTA readers with PNG architecture, so then these 24 Hours became at best an Hour.

I did an experiment last summer and post it to /r/toronto, and it does take about 30 minutes for your load to reach the readers.
Here's the link:
http://m.imgur.com/a/dodCT

 

[nfitz]

Presto has been saying that those new Self-Serve Reload machines are instantaneous. And they should be, because it should be writing the new balance to your card.

I'm not sure why it would have taken 20 minutes 8 months ago ... I didn't even know they had any of those machines 8 months ago ... most have been installed more recently than that. Is it possibly just an odd behaviour while they were beta testing it?

 

[LNahid2000]

I've loaded money at the Self Serve Machine at Bloor-Yonge before, and then immediately went through the turnstyle without any issues. It's definitely instantaneous.

 

[NotMathematical]

Presto has been saying that those new Self-Serve Reload machines are instantaneous. And they should be, because it should be writing the new balance to your card.

I'm not sure why it would have taken 20 minutes 8 months ago ... I didn't even know they had any of those machines 8 months ago ... most have been installed more recently than that. Is it possibly just an odd behaviour while they were beta testing it?

Sorry, I was referring to online transactions taking 30 minutes to process to the reload machines and UP Express devices.
The PRESTO website takes 30 minutes to process your funds through Moneris, while when you load in person the transaction is processed on the spot, making it instantaneous.