Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[nfitz]

Charge a flat fare of $3 or charge by distance?

The current charge using Presto on the TTC is $2.50. Presumably they would continue at the token rate.

Unless you get into tap-on and tap-off on every vehicle, fare-by-distance is a non-starter. Even London, with it's complex zone system, has a single fare on buses.

Surely we'd just implement in the same manner that a half-dozen agencies have already implemented it. Tap to get onto each vehicle/station. Transfers good for 2 hours or so (or 2.5, or whatever). children/seniors, etc. would just have their card tagged that they are whatever - just like every other system, and have to carry ID in case they are inspected. I'd assume they'd continue their no-transfer rule to GO and other systems.

The implementation is simple; it's simply the size of it.

 

[noctis]

The current charge using Presto on the TTC is $2.50. Presumably they would continue at the token rate.

Unless you get into tap-on and tap-off on every vehicle, fare-by-distance is a non-starter. Even London, with it's complex zone system, has a single fare on buses.

Surely we'd just implement in the same manner that a half-dozen agencies have already implemented it. Tap to get onto each vehicle/station. Transfers good for 2 hours or so (or 2.5, or whatever). children/seniors, etc. would just have their card tagged that they are whatever - just like every other system, and have to carry ID in case they are inspected. I'd assume they'd continue their no-transfer rule to GO and other systems.

The implementation is simple; it's simply the size of it.

Agreed, I guess it doesn't sound that hard to do it, just need time and money. So far, the TTC has no plans whatsoever to fully implement the Presto system, but like I mentioned before, it never hurts to start early and think...

 

[nfitz]

So far, the TTC has no plans whatsoever to fully implement the Presto system, but like I mentioned before, it never hurts to start early and think...

I wouldn't say they have no plans. On July 6, the TTC did authorize the financial approach for implementing Presto, and basically to develop the plans. Plans haven't been released yet, but they are underway. So this isn't early ... it's probably too late!

 

[noctis]

I wouldn't say they have no plans. On July 6, the TTC did authorize the financial approach for implementing Presto, and basically to develop the plans. Plans haven't been released yet, but they are underway. So this isn't early ... it's probably too late!

Interesting, must have missed it! Looks like we'll just have to wait and see...but at least it's good to see that some progress is being made...

 

[nfitz]

Got an e-mail this morning from Presto:

As you may be aware, the PRESTO System went through a recent system upgrade. During the upgrade, some customers with Autoload contracts, including yourself, have been impacted. You may notice more than one deduction from your credit card. We recognized this problem quickly and are working to correct it.

Oh boy ... can't get into my account and check it, because it's still down until tomorrow ...

I hope the card works when I try and use it later today ... I guess I better leave to the station a bit early.

 

[TOareaFan]

Quick question about GO/Presto (what does it say that I turn to you guys before asking either of those two bodies )........trying to find the most efficient/inexpensive way for some teenagers to get from Brampton to the Ex.......but not wanting to break any rules.

If someone taps on at a station on the Georgetown Line....goes to Union but does not tap off.....switches to a Lakeshore train then taps off at the Ex....is that ok?

 

[kEiThZ]

The current charge using Presto on the TTC is $2.50. Presumably they would continue at the token rate.

Unless you get into tap-on and tap-off on every vehicle, fare-by-distance is a non-starter. Even London, with it's complex zone system, has a single fare on buses.

Surely we'd just implement in the same manner that a half-dozen agencies have already implemented it. Tap to get onto each vehicle/station. Transfers good for 2 hours or so (or 2.5, or whatever). children/seniors, etc. would just have their card tagged that they are whatever - just like every other system, and have to carry ID in case they are inspected. I'd assume they'd continue their no-transfer rule to GO and other systems.

The implementation is simple; it's simply the size of it.

I would love to see some kind of hybrid. Say $2 for buses. But then you tap on again at the first station you use and then you get charged a fare by distance for the number of stations you go. Maybe impose a maximum. And maybe impose a minimum, for those who just use the subway in the core (with that minimum being a lot less than the fare is now).

Whatever they do, I hope they take the opportunity of implementing Presto to consider a new fare structure.

 

[nfitz]

Website is back up ... whatever the charge error they had on Saturday didn't function the usability of the cards.

The fare history is much more verbose now. Not sure if this will help, or create more confusion!

 

[RedRocket191]

Quick question about GO/Presto (what does it say that I turn to you guys before asking either of those two bodies )........trying to find the most efficient/inexpensive way for some teenagers to get from Brampton to the Ex.......but not wanting to break any rules.

If someone taps on at a station on the Georgetown Line....goes to Union but does not tap off.....switches to a Lakeshore train then taps off at the Ex....is that ok?

The charge would be the same regardless of tapping at union vs not tapping at union.

 

[TOareaFan]

The charge would be the same regardless of tapping at union vs not tapping at union.

Thx...so can you just get on the train back westward to the Ex without tapping on and off? Or do you tap on and off but no charge? Or is there a charge.....both Union and Ex are zone 02.....would seem that a rider on a non-lakeshore line should be able to do the transfer free of charge.

 

[RedRocket191]

Thx...so can you just get on the train back westward to the Ex without tapping on and off? Or do you tap on and off but no charge? Or is there a charge.....both Union and Ex are zone 02.....would seem that a rider on a non-lakeshore line should be able to do the transfer free of charge.

The price is the same today, so there should be no additional charge. You can tap off at union or not - the end result should be the same. However, I have heard that the long term plan is to move away from zones and to a more finely tuned stop-to-stop way of calculating fares. This will fix the quirky fares to an from York U, but might eliminate free-ish travel from one station to another.

 

[TOareaFan]

The price is the same today, so there should be no additional charge. You can tap off at union or not - the end result should be the same. However, I have heard that the long term plan is to move away from zones and to a more finely tuned stop-to-stop way of calculating fares. This will fix the quirky fares to an from York U, but might eliminate free-ish travel from one station to another.

Thanks again...not sure I am asking the question properly but the real issue for me is should they tap off at Union then tap back on/off for the trip to the Ex....as much as I am trying to find them the easiest/cheapest/most efficient trip from Brampton to the Ex...I also want to encourage them to do it "legally" and I am not sure how they would react if they were questioned by enforcement officers.

so...if they tap off at Union and then ride without tapping to the Ex it would seem to me they are in infringement of rules.....if they tap off at Union, though, and tap on/off for the second part of the trip is there an extra charge?

If they do not tap off at Union but, instead, board a train to the Ex and tap off there....is that ok?

 

[Jonny5]

If they do not tap off at Union but, instead, board a train to the Ex and tap off there....is that ok?

They should not tap off at Union. The card emulates how tickets work. You buy a ticket to the final destination, not interim transfer points.
GO has a minimum fare per trip. If you tap off and then on again at Union it will charge the minimum fare again. You are not supposed to be charged this just for transferring.

Now you can get into trouble if all this takes longer than the 2 hour trip window (I think it's actually 2 hours 15 minutes now).
You have to tap off before the trip window ends or the card locks out. If they get to Union and just miss a train, then wait an hour for the next one, they might not get to the EX in time. Also make sure they don't tap on until a few minutes before the train comes. You don't want to use up the trip time before you even get on the train.

 

[nfitz]

They should not tap off at Union. The card emulates how tickets work. You buy a ticket to the final destination, not interim transfer points.
GO has a minimum fare per trip. If you tap off and then on again at Union it will charge the minimum fare again. You are not supposed to be charged this just for transferring.

Now you can get into trouble if all this takes longer than the 2 hour trip window (I think it's actually 2 hours 15 minutes now).
You have to tap off before the trip window ends or the card locks out. If they get to Union and just miss a train, then wait an hour for the next one, they might not get to the EX in time. Also make sure they don't tap on until a few minutes before the train comes. You don't want to use up the trip time before you even get on the train.

How on earth is that going to work when they expand to GO buses.

Even a simple trip - say Union to University of Waterloo using the scheduled bus/train meet can be 2.5 hours. (on the schedule, the 16:30 train to Union, changes to Bus at Milton and arrives at UW at 19:00). Someone coming from Oshawa would depart 14:26 from Oshawa ...and they are already at 2 hours 4 minutes when they get on the Milton train, and would be over 3 hours if they tapped off at Milton and over 4.5 hours by the time they tapped out in Waterloo.

Not the most likely trip ... but for less than $20, I'm sure some cash-strapped student would do it!

 

[Jonny5]

How on earth is that going to work when they expand to GO buses.

Even a simple trip - say Union to University of Waterloo using the scheduled bus/train meet can be 2.5 hours. (on the schedule, the 16:30 train to Union, changes to Bus at Milton and arrives at UW at 19:00). Someone coming from Oshawa would depart 14:26 from Oshawa ...and they are already at 2 hours 4 minutes when they get on the Milton train, and would be over 3 hours if they tapped off at Milton and over 4.5 hours by the time they tapped out in Waterloo.

Not the most likely trip ... but for less than $20, I'm sure some cash-strapped student would do it!

I'm sure they haven't even though of that.

If you look way back in this thread, I discovered this problem about a year ago when I tapped on, but missed a train and took the next one instead. I complained to PRESTO and pointed out that trips could take longer than 2 hours and that tickets were good for 4 hours.
The rep at PRESTO seemed flabbergasted to discover this, but all they have done since is raise it a little bit to match the maximum theoretical one seat train trip time (Aldershot to Oshawa).