Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[DSC]

A stupid question: does OC Transpo accept Toronto Presto cards? Don't want to get stranded.

Yes.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Something new I learned about the Presto Card from tonight’s Metrolinx Town Hall is the fact that there is limited space on the card to store discount information for each transit system. The card can store fare and transfer information for each system, but there is limited space for storing discounts for each system, therefore you may pay the default (adult) fare if you’re in too many discounted fare groups.

 

[nfitz]

What do you mean by "discounted fare group"? In my experience, once a concession is set (for GO for example), it works on other systems.

 

[Leo_Chan]

What do you mean by "discounted fare group"? In my experience, once a concession is set (for GO for example), it works on other systems.

I don't know the specifics, but it has something to do with when different agencies have difference definitions of child/youth/student/post-secondary student.

 

[littlewill1166]

I don't know the specifics, but it has something to do with when different agencies have difference definitions of child/youth/student/post-secondary student.

I think you're talking about agency-specific concessions like the Fair Pass and the PS2 fare for the TTC. The older cards don't have space for more than one of these, but I'm pretty sure the new black cards do. This will be fully fixed when presto gets around to moving to an account based system.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think you're talking about agency-specific concessions like the Fair Pass and the PS2 fare for the TTC. The older cards don't have space for more than one of these, but I'm pretty sure the new black cards do. This will be fully fixed when presto gets around to moving to an account based system.

Likely a newer generation of the physical card may evolve to having more capacity. Wonder if the newer black cards have a higher capacity than the older green cards?

 

[W. K. Lis]

On the subject of fare evasion. Seattle assumes that if you are evading, that you must be poor and MUST be directed to a low-income program.

See link.

Seattle’s Compassionate Response to Fare Evasion

Transit agencies often treat fare evasion with arrests and prosecution, but Seattle’s King County Metro is going with compassion and progressivism.

Turnstile jumping typically stems from poverty — 43 percent of King County Metro fare-beaters had incomes of less than $1,000 a month. An independent audit the same year found almost a quarter of the warnings and citations went to “people experiencing homelessness or housing instability.”

The audit said the way the agency was conducting fare enforcement was not very productive and was also at odds with its equity goals. So, beginning last year, the agency removed the court system from the process. The previous civil penalty was $125 and could be referred to the court system for nonpayment. Now, fare evasion reports are now handled by the agency itself.

First-time offended are issued a warning. If riders receive a second violation, they are offered a menu of resolutions. These are designed specifically so that they don’t trap folks with lower-incomes in a cycle of debt and criminalization.

Under the new system, violators can choose to pay a $25 fine within 30 days. Or they can perform two hours of community service. Or they can simply put $25 on their Orca card for future use. Alternatively, the fine will be voided if they enroll in a transit discount program for low-income people.

King County Metro has, since 2015, offered half-price fares through the “ORCA Lift” program to people with incomes below 200 percent of the federal poverty guidelines. But signing up to receive benefits is not effortless. According to the agency’s survey of fare beaters, about half were eligible for discounted transit fares but had not enrolled in the program.

That was just the first of a handful of programs that are designed to improve affordability. Seattle began offering free transit passes to all high school students and some college students last year.

In addition, since the results of its survey and audit, King County has been doing more to expand affordability for those with very low incomes. Seattle recently announced it would provide free ORCA cards to 1,500 people who live in 11 public housing communities across the city. The one-year pilot program will cost about $1 million, according to the Seattle Times.

A recent review [PDF] of the changes advises the agency go even further: Instead of simply enforcing fare payment, fare enforcement officers operate should take a role in informing riders about the discounted ORCA Lift program.

And enforcement agents should receive special training in implicit racial bias and de-escalation techniques. When the agency evaluated its progress in January, black people were being disproportionately ticketed — receiving about 42 percent of violations despite comprising just 7 percent of the county’s population, according to the Seattle Times.

Metro Transit also recommended more places to purchase ORCA cards be made available, since RapidRide riders purchase them before entering. Special interventions are also needed for riders with no incomes, or who may have mental disorders, the report found, like connections to social service providers.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the TTC website, at this link:

Important information for PRESTO card customers​

​

Starting July 29, PRESTO card customers will be able to use their PRESTO card to pay their MiWay fare on TTC buses that travel to and from Mississauga.​

​

• You will simply tap your PRESTO card when you board the bus in Mississauga and your MiWay fare will be deducted.
• When you arrive in Toronto, tap before you exit the bus to pay your TTC fare.

Starting August 26, PRESTO card customers will be able to use their PRESTO card to pay their YRT fare on TTC buses that travel to and from York Region.​

• You will simply tap your PRESTO card when you board the bus in York Region and your YRT fare will be deducted.
• When you arrive in Toronto, tap before you exit the bus to pay your TTC fare.

Until these changes are introduced you must pay your YRT and/or MiWay fare as you do today (TTC fare plus a supplement, cash or YRT and/or MiWay fare product). The same applies for the reverse. When you board a TTC bus in York Region or Mississauga you must deposit your YRT and/or MiWay fare or cash in the fare box. If you want to pay your TTC fare by PRESTO, you must tap your card when you leave the bus in Toronto.​

 

[Leo_Chan]

From the TTC website, at this link:

Important information for PRESTO card customers​

​

Starting July 29, PRESTO card customers will be able to use their PRESTO card to pay their MiWay fare on TTC buses that travel to and from Mississauga.​

​

• You will simply tap your PRESTO card when you board the bus in Mississauga and your MiWay fare will be deducted.
• When you arrive in Toronto, tap before you exit the bus to pay your TTC fare.

Starting August 26, PRESTO card customers will be able to use their PRESTO card to pay their YRT fare on TTC buses that travel to and from York Region.​

• You will simply tap your PRESTO card when you board the bus in York Region and your YRT fare will be deducted.
• When you arrive in Toronto, tap before you exit the bus to pay your TTC fare.

Until these changes are introduced you must pay your YRT and/or MiWay fare as you do today (TTC fare plus a supplement, cash or YRT and/or MiWay fare product). The same applies for the reverse. When you board a TTC bus in York Region or Mississauga you must deposit your YRT and/or MiWay fare or cash in the fare box. If you want to pay your TTC fare by PRESTO, you must tap your card when you leave the bus in Toronto.​

So since the bus driver do not have access to control the Presto readers, do this mean that the Presto readers use the bus's GPS and the storage on the card to know what to charge? Do all buses work like this, or are there specific buses where specific hardware is installed to allow for this?

 

[WillTo]

Also this:

Downtown Express

The Toronto Transit Commission is the quick, convenient and safe way to get around Toronto. The subway system is linked with buses and streetcars to get you around Toronto on one fare, provided it's a one-way trip with no stopovers. You can travel on the TTC every day.

www.ttc.ca

"

1. Starting August 26, PRESTO card customers will be able to pay the full double fare required on the TTC’s five Downtown Express bus routes using their PRESTO card. You will no longer need to supplement with cash, tickets, tokens. PRESTO card customers must have enough funds loaded onto their PRESTO card to cover the full double fare. This also applies to regular TTC Monthly Pass and regular 12 Month Pass customers. Regular TTC Monthly Pass and regular 12 Month Pass customers will need to load money onto their PRESTO card to cover the second portion of the fare, or purchase a TTC Monthly Downtown Express Pass or 12 Month Downtown Express Pass. If you don’t have money loaded onto your PRESTO card, you will need to pay the full double fare by cash, tickets or tokens.

"

 

[jsjaker]

Now that they seem to have the capability of paying for the TTC fare when you leave the Mississauga Transit bus, will we be able to board a MiWay bus in Toronto when it passes a TTC stop? I'm tired of seeing a string of empty MiWay buses pass my stop on the way to Islington station and then have to board an already jammed TTC bus. If they are starting to have the ability to accept TTC fares through Presto, why not???

 

[Admiral Beez]

On the subject of fare evasion. Seattle assumes that if you are evading, that you must be poor and MUST be directed to a low-income program.

See link.

Seattle’s Compassionate Response to Fare Evasion

I’m in Seattle this week, staying downtown, taking transit, walking the market, etc. Compared to Vancouver I am seeing far fewer seemingly homeless people, and perhaps only a total PD four or five beggars outside of shops. Where did they put all the marginalized folks?

 

[mdrejhon]

Seattle’s Compassionate Response to Fare Evasion

Given initiatives elsewhere, a compassionate approach makes a hell of a lot of sense.

I have a friend who felt he was forced to jump the presto gate (tail a person) because he lost his (thankfully registered) Presto card and did not have enough money in his bank account to get one single TTC fare. He had no way of getting home safely. The fare evasion enforcement system does not really make much sense for people like these.

Regardless of what side of the fence you are in, it is taxpayer-cheaper to attack this problem in a more compassionate way -- especially for people only a "missing-$50" away from being evicted from their apartment. This cascades into a lot of expensive support services (homeless shelters, suicides, etc). So fare eviction system that doesn't factor in these kinds of people -- is silliness in the current era.

Also, it importantly bears worth noting that currently, more fare losses come from Presto bugs (e.g. stuck open gate, failed taps) than from intentional fare evasion (e.g. intentionally leaping a gate).
Those who don't actually have multiple "precarious friends" like these, do not understand the situation. Including one who took his life.

And me, this agreeing taxpayer, coming from me, earning high salary in high tech, me spent thousands dollars a year on GO Transit, and keeping my owned car parked at home at my owned house.

So, BIG KUDOS, Seattle!

 

[littlewill1166]

The presto readers on the TTC now indicate what type of fare is being deducted (TTC, YRT, etc.) in the bottom left corner.

 

[cplchanb]

The presto readers on the TTC now indicate what type of fare is being deducted (TTC, YRT, etc.) in the bottom left corner.

dumb location tbh. Too small and in a spot where nobody will notice. if theyre going to do that why not have it right above the green circle in larger font?