Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[KevinT]

Before it heads in that direction can we skip lynching the union and keep this somewhat on topic?

I was pointing out that anecdotal evidence is not to be relied upon in the decision making process, and trying to do it in humourous fashion.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I didn't say it was a majority. I was stating that customers have demonstrated they believe Presto is ready for prime time; incidentally a prime time show (which is the origin of the term) getting 10% of viewers is doing really well.

If people want to keep Metropass and tokens, then we should begin the process of phasing out Presto. I don't really care what the payment solution is, but at the moment TTC is paying quite a bit extra to carry both the legacy and new fare system; enough extra that it could buy 60 more streetcars using capital-from-current type funding.

Increasing property taxes has been a no-go for years. Working within that voter inflicted budgetary constraint, I want trams much more than I want the option to use both Presto and a magstripe metropass.

We have had all of these for close to 10 years now. Presto needs refinement at this time. Until then, the metropass phase out is being rushed.

 

[raptor]

Everyone is also conveniently ignoring GO's capped pay-as-you-go system. Would have been a great alternative to the Metropass at TTC. But hey, fears of lost revenue and all.

 

[MetroMan]

PRESTO's warranty is worthless. My still pretty new 5 month old card is having issues — I have to wobble it a bit when it doesn't register on a tap. I contacted PRESTO customer service and they just kept offering me options to buy a new card. I know it's just $6 but come on, if I buy a product and it fails because of a manufacturing defect, then it should be replaced at no charge.

 

[robmausser]

Everyone is also conveniently ignoring GO's capped pay-as-you-go system. Would have been a great alternative to the Metropass at TTC. But hey, fears of lost revenue and all.

The TTC makes far too much money on underused Metropasses. They would never do it

 

[W. K. Lis]

If the Metropass will be on the Presto card, then if the fare inspectors scan the card, it should it having Metropass on it, and let the user go on. It's the getting through the subway gate that is the problem.

 

[Leo_Chan]

If the Metropass will be on the Presto card, then if the fare inspectors scan the card, it should it having Metropass on it, and let the user go on. It's the getting through the subway gate that is the problem.

Fare inspectors do see the pass on the card, but requires going to a second page. I agree that you should not be fined for not tapping, but I’m also on the side of needing to tap to get ridership information.

 

[rbt]

We have had all of these for close to 10 years now. Presto needs refinement at this time. Until then, the metropass phase out is being rushed.

What catastrophic issues are 400,000 daily trips not experiencing that 1.2M daily trips will experience?

I'm not a fan of Presto in any way but this line of thought feels like fear, uncertainty, doubt. If Presto was that problematic, it would have captured far fewer TTC riders than tokens; especially given tokens had a 60 year head start.

Presto has problems but they don't outweight the issues it solves such as the lost card problem; losing a metropass at the start of the month is painful but you can have a new presto including your balance/passes within a couple days.

 

[rbt]

Fare inspectors do see the pass on the card, but requires going to a second page. I agree that you should not be fined for not tapping, but I’m also on the side of needing to tap to get ridership information.

The line of thought on this from a fare enforcement perspective is that if nearly everybody taps then it's far easier to notice those who are committing fare fraud. Those boarding without going through the motions will stand out. A little bit of social pressure can greatly help with fare enforcement.

Allowing 20% of valid customers through without taping will completely hide the ~1% that don't pay at all; they'll blend in with the crowd.

I'm not sure the TTC needs to worry that much about fare enforcement; so I would lean toward giving a warning.


Fare enforcement can threaten reduced service levels on routes with lots of metropass holders not tapping. Just tell customers TTC counts passengers via taps and deploys service based on that. By not tapping, they're causing crowding. This might even be more effective than a fine.

 

[DSC]

TTC in York Region still doesn't accept Presto as of today. This is going to be a huge problem after the end of next year when the TTC stops accepting tickets and tokens. YRT is the only transit agency that provides contracted service in North America I think.

https://www.yrt.ca/en/fares-and-passess/about-presto.aspx

The TTC website says:

Using PRESTO on TTC buses in York Region and Mississauga
PRESTO readers on TTC buses that operate in York Region or Mississauga are not currently set up to collect YRT and/or MiWay fares, only TTC fares. You can use your PRESTO card to pay your TTC fare if you board the bus in Toronto. When you leave the bus in York Region or Mississauga you must pay your YRT and/or MiWay fare as you do today (TTC fare plus a supplement, cash or YRT and/or MiWay fare product). The same applies for the reverse. When you board a TTC bus in York Region or Mississauga you must deposit your YRT and/or MiWay fare or cash in the fare box. If you want to pay your TTC fare by PRESTO, you must tap your card when you leave the bus in Toronto.

 

[Leo_Chan]

TTC in York Region still doesn't accept Presto as of today. This is going to be a huge problem after the end of next year when the TTC stops accepting tickets and tokens. YRT is the only transit agency that provides contracted service in North America I think.

https://www.yrt.ca/en/fares-and-passess/about-presto.aspx

Yes this is still unacceptable, but as @DSC said above, this is not a "huge problem". You can pay your YRT fare using tickets or the app and the TTC fare with Presto.

 

[p_xavier]

If you look at other North American transit system like STM Montreal, OC Transpo, MTA New York, CTA, LA Metro, and many others don't have contracted services outside the city/county limits.

EXO in Montréal contracts bus services and mandates Bombardier to run its trains.

 

[APTA-2048]

But the EXO is like GO Transit.

Well, sort of. Exo runs intercity trains and buses, but they also run local bus service in some municipalities.

 

[APTA-2048]

If you look at other North American transit system like STM Montreal, OC Transpo, MTA New York, CTA, LA Metro, and many others don't have contracted services outside the city/county limits.

I should also note: Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures, which is outside of Quebec City, contracts with the RTC to operate transit in the municipality. The circumstances are different, but this is similar the TTC operating routes in York Region.

 

[APTA-2048]

Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures is part of Quebec City.

I guess you're right. It's part of the Urban agglomeration of Quebec City, but not part of the actual City.

Some further digging shows ETS operates and maintains transit in the Town of Beaumont. Again, within the metropolitan area/region, but its own municipality.

I still don't see these situations as much different than the TTC operating routes in York Region.