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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Leo_Chan said:
I’m not sure if it’s internet or a specific credit card company network, but either way they’ll need some data connection.


Source
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I don't think that they'll be constantly connected since verifying each transaction online can get slow. They'll probably do what Air Canada does with onboard sales where they record the transaction and bulk process it on the back end when there's a reliable connection. This will probably mean that Interac-only debit won't be accepted.
 
Leo_Chan said:
... Therefore, having a constant internet connection is a requirement for credit card payments with Presto.
Click to expand...

Not entirely. Offline they would be able to verify it is a real non-expired card, but they cannot confirm funds are available. Odds are quite high that $3 will be available when it is a big 5 bank issuing it (not a prepaid card like the Starbucks one). If they're fancy they'll record a CCTV snap of this event to help resolve fare fraud.

When connectivity is re-established they can fully process the transaction. If funds are not available, they have 2 choices. 1) allow this single trip as good will and try charging it again later on (card goes onto a "must-verify" list to guarantee a charge for future trips; Presto kinda does this today allowing negative balance cards to finish a trip), or 2) broadcast the card on a black-list which prevents transfers or potentially exiting the subway (exit taps will be required) without providing an alternative payment method.
 
^that still does not answer my question: what happens if you have both presto and credit cards on your phone, and presto readers accept both?
 
rbt said:
When connectivity is re-established they can fully process the transaction. If funds are not available, they have 2 choices. 1) allow this single trip as good will and try charging it again later on (card goes onto a "must-verify" list to guarantee a charge for future trips; Presto kinda does this today allowing negative balance cards to finish a trip), or 2) broadcast the card on a black-list which prevents transfers or potentially exiting the subway (exit taps will be required) without providing an alternative payment method.
Click to expand...
Several systems already take credit/debit cards on this basis (was Vancouver activated - last time I was there, debit/credit symbols were just appearing on some devices, but it wasn't turned on yet?). Nothing complex about this.

Obviously there'll be some opportunities for people to steal a $3.25 ride. Though if they are efficient, they'll quickly be blacklisting cards. Seems a lot of work to steal $3.25.
 
hw621 said:
^that still does not answer my question: what happens if you have both presto and credit cards on your phone, and presto readers accept both?
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I don't think I'm qualified to give a complete technical breakdown of what exactly would happen but I'm sure PRESTO will be more than capable of working with Apple and Google to develop a solution for that.
 
hw621 said:
^that still does not answer my question: what happens if you have both presto and credit cards on your phone, and presto readers accept both?
Click to expand...
I would assume you would need to choose the card yourself in the Apply Pay or Google Pay interface prior to tapping, or open the Presto App before tapping. But I would also assume there would be a way to set a default card for a certain NFC reader type.
 
OCCheetos said:
I don't think I'm qualified to give a complete technical breakdown of what exactly would happen but I'm sure PRESTO will be more than capable of working with Apple and Google to develop a solution for that.
Click to expand...
Let's hope so. I heard that one place (Vancouver or London I don't remember), when their transit card readers start accept credit cards, they had to warn passengers specifically not to tap their wallet because their credit cards might be charged instead of the transit cards. So they probably don't have a solution to that.
 
hw621 said:
^This would havd made sense, but this is slide says "no need to open app"...
Click to expand...
In the demo at the April Metrolinx Meeting, they did demo an Android Phone tap on the reader with the screen off and phone locked.

I’m not familiar with how mobile payments work with Android, but from a bit of research I found out that NFC with the screen off is impossible without rooting the phone, so the screen must be on (not unlocked) to tap your phone on the reader.

Also, Google Pay always chooses the default card (probably a credit card for normal people) regardless of reader when tapping from the locked state. You need to unlock your phone and go into the Google Pay App to choose another card before you tap.
 
Apple has a pretty strong integration with transit, with their best example being JR East's Suica card. If you set it as your Express Transit card on your iPhone or Apple Watch, you don't need to unlock to use it. Also, you are able to reload your card when it gets low using your other Apple Pay cards.

More Info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207154
 
hw621 said:
Let's hope so. I heard that one place (Vancouver or London I don't remember), when their transit card readers start accept credit cards, they had to warn passengers specifically not to tap their wallet because their credit cards might be charged instead of the transit cards. So they probably don't have a solution to that.
Click to expand...




And then there is the fun over which type of card is cheaper,

 
hw621 said:
^that still does not answer my question: what happens if you have both presto and credit cards on your phone, and presto readers accept both?
Click to expand...

Depending on the amount of intelligence coded into the reader (and the power it's antennas and drivers can deliver), it can detect and isolate multiple cards in the read field. Presumably it would prioritize the card with a Presto AID on it over the debit/credit ones. Of course you have to provide some sort of timeout for this to work, to allow all cards to power up and respond before the decision is taken, and this delay may be unacceptable to end users. Also, once you get more than 2 or 3 cards in a wallet (debit/credit/other credit/Presto/Starbucks), the reader is unlikely to be able to deliver enough power to keep them all alive simultaneously and it becomes a crap-shoot which ones it will detect. A savvy transit system will just warn their customers to remove the transit card from their wallet and present it in isolation to avoid customer complaints, but will probably try and put some logic in there to resolve multiple cards anyway, also to avoid customer complaints. :)
 
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