Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I doubt the TTC are going to put effort into analysing the data they will certainly have available. They have not done any work on their (abysmal) route management (or lack of management) and seem to rely on Steve Munro to do his exhaustive (and exhausting!) analyses.

If you watch the monthly board meetings they do look at the presto usage along with physical counts and counter they have satred insatlling above the doors. Right nowe becue of the low uptake of presto they can't get an acurte enough count from. The prpblem with the curent fare sytem is it doesn't tell you if somone entered a subway sation and then got on a bus or took the subway to theri end destination. By having poel tap on all vecheles they baord no matter what they can better asses travel paterns of poel and maybe even be albe to make chages to the fllet bettere. Alos once the Vision sytem is rolled out to all streetcars and buses they will have acrute infomation on the laocations as well as what is going on with the bus.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think that they'll need to make this clear in an intuitive manner. There should be doorless PRESTO "gates" at the entrance to bus loops — essentially a row of posts with PRESTO tap terminals. Tap your card as you pass through. A less intuitive way would be to have PRESTO terminals near where you board with a sign saying "Please tap before boarding".

They could also add them to other locations too like at satirways going down to the subway or evn wher the streecars enter at spadina and Union sation, although the later I thinksshould have one way fare gates to stop poel from rentering the baording are via the exit area and bypassing any lines that have formed with poel waiting in them.

 

[steveintoronto]

^POP...if it was such a good idea when instituted, why isn't it now? How about making people do little dances and jump through hoops like trained monkeys too?

How about turnstiles on each subway car as well? And for each seat? Oh but of course, that's not so ridiculous, because you can tap your Presto card each time...

And of course, when using what few washrooms there are on TTC: Tap in each time so they know where you are. Someone's lost track of what this was supposed to be:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2017/bu/bgrd/backgroundfile-109829.pdf

 

[DSC]

If you watch the monthly board meetings they do look at the presto usage along with physical counts and counter they have satred insatlling above the doors. Right nowe becue of the low uptake of presto they can't get an acurte enough count from. The prpblem with the curent fare sytem is it doesn't tell you if somone entered a subway sation and then got on a bus or took the subway to theri end destination. By having poel tap on all vecheles they baord no matter what they can better asses travel paterns of poel and maybe even be albe to make chages to the fllet bettere. Alos once the Vision sytem is rolled out to all streetcars and buses they will have acrute infomation on the laocations as well as what is going on with the bus.

I see your resolution to use a spell checking program has lapsed! If you want your posts to be taken seriously you need to take THEM seriously.

Yes, I know the TTC looks at SOME figures but they seem not to look at any that require analysis. Counting number of PRESTO users is quite simple, looking at headways is more complicated and they have never shown any sign of doing that and using the information to improve service.

 

[Neutrino]

The gates also need to be faster.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The gates also need to be faster.

No people need to be patient and learn how to use them properly instead of how they used to just run through the old turnstiles. Many people stand between the sensors for the gates and try to tap their passes and then get upset that it doesn't work. Then there are the wonderful people that increase the fare for those of us that pay it every day that either get their friend to open the gate for them or walk through one that someone else has opened either with a pass or by exiting it.

 

[steveintoronto]

The gates need to be faster. Here's a guess: The software is almost instantaneous, but the buggy motors are throttled back so they don't choke. Built in latency.

They need to be faster.

Edit to Add: I think this is a fake news to cover for what the real problem is: Using a motor in place of a solenoid. I'll get more technical if you wish.

[...]
By now the Presto system has become a fixture on the TTC, but as the roll out inches toward completion, the fare payment technology is still suffering from a number of frustrating hiccups.

The latest in a long list of challenges that have plagued the introduction of the payment program involves the computer software used to manage the fare gates that can be increasingly found at the entrances to subway stations.

According to a report from the Toronto Star, as more and more fare gates have been installed, it's "overloaded the capacity of the existing software platform, causing a glitch that means the TTC is often unable to detect when a gate fails."

The Star further notes that the fare gates are meant to run on dedicated software distinct from what's used for card readers and re-load machines, but so far everything is managed by the same system, which is putting it under too much strain.

A year ago, statistics from Metrolinx indicated that 12 per cent of fare gates were malfunctioning. Even as that number improves, it's still crucial that the TTC be able to identify crippled gates so it can fix them as soon as possible.

Disabled fare gates can encourage fare evasion, particularly at station entrances without fare collectors or customer service agents. And even when the gates are working optimally, there's going to be occasions when rough treatment from customers renders them inoperable.

Apparently a solution is in the works with the software manufacturer, though it remains to be seen if the problem can be corrected in time for the planed phased out of legacy fare payment systems by the end of the year.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/01/problems-presto-fare-gates-ttc/

And little green men live on Mars. How much latency is there to hear the beep from tapping your card? Almost imperceptible. That card was read and the action approved. The motor mechanism (a solenoid is an armature type motor with immediate reaction. Think a nail gun) should respond within a tenth of a second to have those doors open. You see this happening on production lines with automated sensing gates and subsequent operation. The cap on a bottle of Coke is sensed and placed in a hundredth of a second.

But oh, it's the errrr...ummmmm...slow software! Yeah, that's it. Not my department...

 

[Leo_Chan]

I noticed that Ottawa's fare gates from images and tour videos seem longer than those on the TTC. Larger distance between the end of the gate and the gate itself allows for more time to tap or activate motion sensor. I don't know if Ottawa's gates will/do have the same delay problem as the TTC's, but I would assume they'll have more time to open.

 

[Neutrino]

No people need to be patient and learn how to use them properly instead of how they used to just run through the old turnstiles. Many people stand between the sensors for the gates and try to tap their passes and then get upset that it doesn't work. Then there are the wonderful people that increase the fare for those of us that pay it every day that either get their friend to open the gate for them or walk through one that someone else has opened either with a pass or by exiting it.

No the gates need to be faster. I haven't yet once seen anyone forcing their way through the gates. But everyone has to pause a half second before going through. Imagine what that does to the throughput of a crowded station in rush hour. It adds up when there's a torrent of people flooding through. I was initially enthusiastic about the fare gates being installed everywhere. We're moving to modernity! - I thought. I was young and naive. Honestly, there was nothing wrong with the turnstiles. They've been doing the job since the 50s and would easily serve decades more. Seemed pretty durable too: in my years of using the TTC, I've encountered maybe two jammed turnstiles. Just slap a Presto reader on them and you're good to go. Not impressed at all with the gates.

 

[steveintoronto]

^

Not impressed at all with the gates.

There is one advantage: Pushing a bike through and/or a dog. Or a baby buggy or luggage. But some gates could be reserved for just that. Most of the gates are pretty flimsy, and there's a long way to go with the design to get it right.

 

[Kitsune]

The gates have gotten Slower - lately you can follow someone out and not have the gates slam shut on you.

 

[steveintoronto]

The gates have gotten Slower

Interesting. I suspect they've derated the motor loading to reduce jamming. The gates still get confused when people arrive at them from both directions at the same time. The design needs more attention.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Interesting. I suspect they've derated the motor loading to reduce jamming. The gates still get confused when people arrive at them from both directions at the same time. The design needs more attention.

Not really which would you rather have two people running into each other in a hurry and getting hurt or agate that doesn't open, I'll take the later because I have had some idiot running for the train run into me because the doors were closing and they were coming down the stairs.
I don't have a problem with the speed of the gates and I don't get why people have an issue with them at all. If anyone does have a problem with them not opening for them they're either in the wrong spot for them to open ie standing in the middle of them or not taping the card on the right reader.

I have also noticed that sometimes in some stations one or two of the gates show different things on either side which says to me they may be experimenting with having some be one way at certain times of the day.

 

[Kitsune]

... thats another issue with the gates - some stay stuck on entry, so you can just walk in without scanning your card.

 

[steveintoronto]

... thats another issue with the gates - some stay stuck on entry, so you can just walk in without scanning your card.

Doubtless there's better models in the works. Some are already operational, and although it seems one poster will never know the difference, notice how this passenger doesn't break his step or pace to go through:

http://www.masabi.com/resources/