Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[dowlingm]

Displaying the balance on fare gates could actually solve a problem with the Shite and Bachmann gates - the doors opening too slowly for a passenger tapping while walking. Inducing a 1 second delay might actually be helpful by moderating passenger speed to the speed of the gates.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Amazing how the TTC can't figure out something that Go Transit (tap off to calculate FBD) and YRT (charge a different fare on a few express routes) have been doing for years - flawlessly in the case of Go Transit, and almost flawlessly in the case of YRT (on YRT you get free transfers from normal routes to express routes, without being charged the 50¢ extra.)

The TTC does not have this in place as other the buses that are assigned to the airport express all of its buses can be put on any route at any time, It's something that they are working on adding to the back end of Presto in the next update in the summer when they add the Metropass to it. Keep in mind the TTC is adding Preto differently then the other regains did as they had to deal with poel tah already had Preto and wanting to use it. Just like how they are now getting ready to put in the new fare gates at the original 26 sations that got Preto because of transfers to buses and go trains outside of the region and also the downtown ones that had it added for the Pan Am Games.

Displaying the balance on fare gates could actually solve a problem with the Shite and Bachmann gates - the doors opening too slowly for a passenger tapping while walking. Inducing a 1 second delay might actually be helpful by moderating passenger speed to the speed of the gates.

It's not going to happen as they have said numerous times that they would have to have audio announcement of it as well and it's privacy issue. Personally I wouldn't want someone to know how much I have on my Presto card plus it would be come a cacophony in the stations with all the people tapping or even when they board a bus or streetcar. Alos like I said most people I see using Presto card don't look at the ready at all. The only time I ever do is if I have to overide when using go transit as I have a concession fare form Danforth to Union station on mine as its the one I most use if I do use Go transit.

 

[nfitz]

Oh FFS.

Or carry two Prestocards. It's only temporary ...

Amazing how the TTC can't figure out something that Go Transit (tap off to calculate FBD) and YRT (charge a different fare on a few express routes) have been doing for years - flawlessly in the case of Go Transit, and almost flawlessly in the case of YRT (on YRT you get free transfers from normal routes to express routes, without being charged the 50¢ extra.)

Not sure why you are blaming TTC. The rollout sequence is primarily Metrolinx. They've got the low hanging fruit, by getting all the readers in everywhere (and I haven't actually seen an out-of-service presto reader on a streetcar in a while ... so something is getting better - used to be daily.)

The additional hardware to allow for that kind of control, was always further down the roll-out list. Would you prefer they just leave everything turned off until they are 100% like some agencies do? We've been up and down this before - I don't know why we need to do it again.

plus the fact that once you load money on-line, you need to wait 24 hrs to use it. How crazy if this!

And where does it any faster? Oh, and it's maximum 24-hour. Normally if you do it in the evening, it's good in the morning. And some locations - TTC, etc. - are much faster. But some buses in suburbia can only download in the garage.

What city does better? London doesn't let you even get your load on a bus, and if you get it at a tube station, you have to tell it which one, the day before. Montreal ... Montreal. You can't get the load anywhere - you have to buy your own device that writes to your card, plugged into your computer. Vancouver is new - much newer than Presto, I haven't looked at that one before - let's see. It's 2-hours - which is about what we are seeing on TTC in reality.

 

[cplchanb]

It's not going to happen as they have said numerous times that they would have to have audio announcement of it as well and it's privacy issue. Personally I wouldn't want someone to know how much I have on my Presto card plus it would be come a cacophony in the stations with all the people tapping or even when they board a bus or streetcar. Alos like I said most people I see using Presto card don't look at the ready at all. The only time I ever do is if I have to overide when using go transit as I have a concession fare form Danforth to Union station on mine as its the one I most use if I do use Go transit.

Sigh...the sensitivity of this aoda is wrecking the experience for 90% of the other riders. Seriously this thing is way too overregulated and the aoda lobbyists are way to slighted by the merest of "inequalities".Can't the subway ambassadors that will be there when the attendants are retired check the balance for the blind? Besides don't legally blond people ride free anyways?

Then again if this was such an issue the g1 readers should've been replaced a long time ago since they only display the balance. What a serious waste of money on those fancy led displays.

 

[Leo_Chan]

What a serious waste of money on those fancy led displays.

Fancy LED displays that only show a giant check mark, arrow, dash, or X.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

wrecking the experience for 90% of the other riders.

how is not showing a balance wrecking your experience?

 

[cplchanb]

how is not showing a balance wrecking your experience?

Possible scenario, in the morning I pay for the TTC using Presto not knowing that I've used the remaining balance and I don't have auto reload. In the evening, I'm trying to get home but for some reason the screen only shows a red cross and I don't know why.

Although yes it's one of those what if situations and perhaps the wrecking term is a bit of a stretch, but many people don't have auto reload nor are tech savy enough to be able to register their cards to check their balances. They rely on the individual add value machines in the stations. That's why in many other systems around the world there's a fare adjustment machine inside the fare paid area so that if you know from checking your balance when you tap on that you just used your last few dollars you can top up you can add money on the spot instead of relying on a still unguaranteed 24hr turnaround Web load.

The TTC is a bit niave to assume that everyone has Internet access when they themselves are still lagging behind the world in getting reception for their tunnels. Hell even stm's metro can go wireless underground.

 

[nfitz]

If you are using it that regularly, I'm not sure why you don't just use autoload. Mine's been running smoothly for about 6 years now.

 

[11th]

If you are using it that regularly, I'm not sure why you don't just use autoload. Mine's been running smoothly for about 6 years now.

I don't think it's a matter of using autoload or not. (and I am not sure what percentage of the population has a credit card; should we assume every TTC user has/uses a credit card? )

Given the complexity of the current TTC transfer setup for Presto, there should be an instant confirmation of whether money's been deducted from the card whenever it's being tapped on a reader. The logic behind the reason of not putting any additional information on the screen is flawed to begin with.

 

[11th]

The kiosks are a much better place for a balance check anyway. TTC just needs to add them to the bus waiting areas of the platforms in addition to the entrances.

We don't need people pausing at gates and doors to read their balance nor does the person entering behind them need to know they have $1000 on their Presto card (yes, I've seen $500+ balances a a few times for people boarding Lake Shore trains; probably around 1 in 30 from my anecdotal and non-random sampling)

It's already been mentioned, but systems around the world shows the balance at the point of payment. What makes Toronto such a special case? Do people get mugged more often here than all those other cities for their transit fare card?

Also, knowing your balance after you've tapped won't prevent a person from going negative; they've already gone negative by that point. They will want to check their balance before making the payment, not after...

Yes, they will be in the negative, but by then they'd already be in the fare paid zone, and should be able to complete their trip. If their trip does not end at a subway station, I guess they can top up their balance at the nearest vendor (Shopper's, etc.) - if they don't want to/can't do that online.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think it's a matter of using autoload or not. (and I am not sure what percentage of the population has a credit card; should we assume every TTC user has/uses a credit card? )

You don't need a credit card, you can also use debit. And if you don't use debit, you can actually have it pulled straight from your bank account.

Given the complexity of the current TTC transfer setup for Presto, there should be an instant confirmation of whether money's been deducted from the card whenever it's being tapped on a reader.

I'm not saying there couldn't be better ways, I'm simply suggesting how to deal with it under the current system, rather than a fantasy one that won't exist.

The logic behind the reason of not putting any additional information on the screen is flawed to begin with.

Are you that confident that the TTC would win a lawsuit under the AODA, given their history of loss, and given the anti-TTC militancy of some in that community? And even if they were to win, why put yourself through that?

It's already been mentioned, but systems around the world shows the balance at the point of payment. What makes Toronto such a special case?

It's been mentioned time and time again, so why rehash it yet again. The rest of the world is irrelevant, it's Ontario law that is the issue, and it's only TTC that has been continually subjected to these litigious militants - they seem to leave GO and other agencies alone.

 

[rbt]

they seem to leave GO and other agencies alone.

Mostly, yeah. David Lepofsky, a blind law professor (retired general council), mostly uses TTC and fought for his own freedom of movement initially but he started branching out to act on behalf of others. For example, GO's new electronic announcement system isn't entirely a Metrolinx initiative.

He's largely responsible for the 2005 Disabilities Act in the first place. Step #1, make the law; step #2, make agencies comply with that law. Grass roots organizations looking to change things without going into politics ought to be looking at his work.

 

[amnesiajune]

Are you that confident that the TTC would win a lawsuit under the AODA, given their history of loss, and given the anti-TTC militancy of some in that community?

I'd be confident of that if there was one tweet, report or press release - just one - where the TTC says this is why they don't show the balance. The only source I've seen for the AODA explanation is a handful of random people on an internet forum.

 

[TOareaFan]

Don't they intend to put TTC passes on the cards? If so there is no value to the regular TTC pass user to know the balance and all you are left with is some combo of single ticket users (who will know that they are done with that ticket) and suburbanites using TTC (and they will be able to check their balances on the way home on GO)....I am really not sure why people debate this point so long (fine if you want to...I just don't see the big/long term issue).

 

[LNahid2000]

Don't they intend to put TTC passes on the cards? If so there is no value to the regular TTC pass user to know the balance and all you are left with is some combo of single ticket users (who will know that they are done with that ticket) and suburbanites using TTC (and they will be able to check their balances on the way home on GO)....I am really not sure why people debate this point so long (fine if you want to...I just don't see the big/long term issue).

I don't think they'll be putting single tickets on Presto. Single fares will work exactly the way they do now, and the ttc has a lot of riders who don't use passes (who also don't use GO).