ehlow
Senior Member
Some of the new Presto reload machines in the subway stations are within the paid areas (ex. St Andrew). Which is kind of weird. I'm assuming there will always be one outside the paid area?
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I have never noticed the one at St. Andrew inside the paid area...but there is definitely one on the non-paid side of the turnstiles (unless they moved it in the last week)
pstogios
Senior Member
That was me that asked Brad Ross about this today and I have the same interpretation as you. Someone is a liar -- Brad Ross said Presto would be activated ON THOSE STREETCARS THAT HAVE THEM IN NOVEMBER, and the rest of the fleet by the end of the year. Now he backtracks.
The LFLRV's have had Presto for months but the CLRV's haven't, meaning exactly the situation that one assumes they are worried about (I.e. not all streetcars having Presto) is already in effect.
Maybe there is a technical reason for this - like the Presto IT system needs ALL units to be activated at the same time rather than a few at a time. I don't know. If that's the case, why did Brad Ross give that November roll-out date in the first place?
I often ask myself: "Wtf is with the TTC?"
nfitz
Superstar
I see no need for such personal attacks. If a plan changes, that doesn't make someone a liar. Why make such a comment? It only either demontrates you don't know definition of what "a liar", or you have no hesitation to lie yourself.
I wonder WTF is wrong with people too.
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Megaton327
Senior Member
As I mentioned, it's either someone complains to them that they're on Spadina (or wherever) and 1-2 streetcars pass in a row without Presto, or currently someone stands on 510 or 509 and complains 4-10 streetcars pass in a row without Presto. Or on any other line they stand there for hours and complain that dozens and dozens are going by without Presto, if they aren't well informed. I suspect this "logic" is why the TTC have backtracked on the November activation plans...
On another note, Presto tweeted me that the tap-to-pay debit/credit functionality at the SRVM on the Eastbound platform at Queen's Quay and Spadina has been fixed as of Nov 2 and "should work the next time you use it". Used it 4:09 PM today Nov 3 and once again, rejected both Interac and Visa, which are both working fine with tap at other merchants. This comes after they tweeted me earlier the same day that "open payment is not activated as of yet. We are still in the testing stages" which came after I used it successfully on 4405 and is definitely false. The jerking around/frequent incorrect replies, first that it is in testing and not activated (in which case, why does the machine say it's activated?) and then that it's fixed when it's broken in exactly the same way it was before, are really getting on my nerves.
nfitz
Superstar
If it's in testing phase, it could well take the occasional payment, but they haven't announced it yet, so that people don't expect it will work. I doubt that minimum-wage clerks at Metrolinx's vendor have been briefed on the day-to-day location of where they are testing units.
pstogios
Senior Member
I didn't call Brad Ross a liar. He's a spokesman. Someone else made the plan to activate Presto readers on CLRV's on November. Brad Ross himself on Twitter said he doesn't have the date.
Megaton327 found the tweets that prove the announcement Brad Ross made. Whoever is in charge of the Presto activation date, *that* person is a liar, or is incompetent to not understand the requisite technical requirements, if that is the case. There are only those two options.
There is no need for me to lie here - it's all on Twitter.
I don't understand how the TTC can constantly communicate plans only to have them delayed. Just don't announce any plan then.
Megaton327
Senior Member
If it's in testing phase the reader should be covered up and the debit/credit option should be crossed out on the screen, like it is on every machine that doesn't have the reader. Or when tapped it should say "this function is in testing, and will be enabled in the coming days". It should not be tappable, then offer selection of fares, state a total, request payment, and give instructions for payment, read your credit/debit card, and then of all things say "transaction failed" and print out a receipt saying "not approved".
As it is now people will expect it to work--the average rider, and especially visitors, do not check twitter or press release sections of website to check for an announcement that the machine takes cards, they look at it, see the option to pay with a card, and see that it appears to accept it then fails to work.
nfitz
Superstar
No, there is a third option. The third option is that you don't understand the meaning of the word "lie". If plans change during testing, that isn't a "lie". A lie is an intentionally false statement. An unintentionally false statement, may well be false, but it isn't a lie.
They are testing new equipment. It's quite conceivable that things would not go exactly as planned. It's also quite conceivable that as time progresses, the plans on how to roll out would mature. This doesn't make a lie. And it's disingenuous and quite possibly libellous to suggest otherwise.
It's entirely possible that to test them in the wild, they need to see will actually happen. As they've not announced this capability, no one would be expecting it to work - other than those who are entirely unreasonable.
So they won't be expecting it to work, they'll see the symbol, try it, and it won't work ... but because no one is expecting it to work yet, they'll simply use whatever payment method they'd already been planning to use.
In both these posts, the pattern seems to be that a few people expect them to suddenly introduce in live service, new technology, 100% functioning, enabled, and ready to go. Life just doesn't work like that, and I don't really know how people function in society thinking otherwise.
Megaton327
Senior Member
That's absolutely absurd. If an infrequent transit user decides to take transit and sees that symbol, they won't think "oh, I haven't heard a Metrolinx press release where they unveiled this technology, so I shouldn't count on it" they'll think "oh good, you can pay with a credit/debit card now".
nfitz
Superstar
What do you expect them to do, do the entire roll-out overnight, with no testing? I saw similar interac debit/credit markings on some readers on Vancouver buses, that I don't think had been activated yet, when I was out there this summer. It never crossed my mind to try and pay with my card, instead of using the tickets I'd already purchased.
If they try it once, and it fails, then they'll quickly figure out not to do it again. On the off-chance they get inspected, I'm sure they can tell a good sob story and get a warning.
ksun
Senior Member
NFITZ, you are really good at defending and rationalizing whatever disasters TTC achieves, since every delay or failure seems justified to you in one way or another. This is why the TTC still seems acceptable to Toronto riders. TTC should hire you as their PR person, no kidding.
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
Because no other systems have delays, do everything perfectly and everything rolls out on the exact day that they first said so.
nfitz
Superstar
What disaster? They've been touting Presto implementation on all streetcars by end of December for months.
It's pretty clear from all the old streetcars that have them at the end of October, that they are doing well on this.
No timeframe for credit/debit implementation has been announced, but it's clear they are getting close on this.
I've complained viciously and loudly when TTC has had issues. But that doesn't mean I should not stand up and point out when people are making libellous and ridiculous comments. That would be one-sided.
Megaton327
Senior Member
No, I expect them to test it with their own employees, not the general public. There's no reason they can't do that--I don't even mean in their own facilities, they can deploy it at QQ/Spadina, disable the debit/credit functionality, then send someone over to enable it, test that their card works, then disable it and report back, and repeat that a few times, if desired, before turning it on.
Also, it's not the entire roll-out, they have 3 of these machines that I know of, 1 at this SRVM and 2 aboard 4405. Also, they use the same reader on the SSKs. And the 4405 SRVMs work fine with debit/credit.
They tweeted out an excuse that it's in testing--of course, you can simply take that at face value and rush to their defense as usual, or apply some critical thinking, such as by noticing that 9 hours, or whatever it was, after they said it is in testing and open payment is not available yet (despite it working fine aboard 4405) they said that the machine was working perfectly, which is unlikely if their testing statement was accurate.