Metrolinx: Five-in-Ten Plan

[Rainforest]

Metrolinx's new plan for Eglinton, SLRT, Sheppard, Finch, and VivaNext

Summary table on Page 26 shows the projected total cost per line. Note that those costs are in "escalated dollars", i.e. inflation is taken into account.

Eglinton LRT (Jane to Kennedy). Timeframe: 2010 - 2020, length: 20 km, total cost: 6,065 million. Cost per km: 303 million.

Scarborough LRT (Kennedy Stn to Sheppard / Progress). Timeframe: 2015 - 2020, length: about 10 km, total cost: 2,465 million. Cost per km: 247 million.

... Even though half of the guideway already exists, and the cost of carhouse is not included (it is included in SELRT instead)

Finch West LRT (Keele to Humber College). Timeframe: 2015 - 2019, length: about 11 km, total cost: 1,280 million. Cost per km: 116 million.

Sheppard East LRT (Don Mills to Conlins). Timeframe: 2009 - 2014, length: 15 km, total cost: 1,130 million. Cost per km: 75 million.

Comparing to the Spadina subway extension (scheduled completion in 2015): total cost about 2,650 million, length about 8.3 km. Cost per km: 319 million. Finch W and Sheppard E are still much cheaper than that, but Eglinton is in the same league and SLRT is not far behind.

 

[kettal]

Five out of 52 projects by 2020. Amazing.

 

[Jimbits]

Five out of 52 projects by 2020. Amazing.

Yes, hence this whole spectacle is just so underwhelming.

And the five projects have some cuts to them, so even the number "5" is being generous.

Yes, something will be better than nothing, but I'm so disappointed. Announcements mean nothing.

 

[SlickFranky]

Thanks for the post. They seem to be trying to emphasize how aggressively they will be tackling these projects. Hopefully this enthusiasm carries through.

Comparing to the Spadina subway extension (scheduled completion in 2015): total cost about 2,650 million, length about 8.3 km. Cost per km: 319 million. Finch W and Sheppard E are still much cheaper than that, but Eglinton is in the same league and SLRT is not far behind.

Yup...tunneled (or otherwise grade-separated) lines cost more.

I'm curious why Finch is so expensive though. I get that the 400 crossing might be pricey, but otherwise it's pretty roomy through most of that stretch.

 

[GTS]

Yes this has been a dissappointing year for me with all the revisions to the "Announced' plans lately. I have moved here to Toronto from Vancouver, and was amazed after announcement after annoucement was delivered regarding transit plans and projects. I thought this was too good to be true for this public transit fan like myself and for a city the size of Toronto. I know the economy is cyclical but, I thought the governments practiced basic Keynesian economics and that means that basically in good times the gov't is supposed to save the revenue generated by taxes to fund projects, such as public transit expansions and improvements (and other projects of course) when the economy is not so healthy to provide jobs until the economy naturally gets on its feet again.

I am fairly new here to Toronto and I love it, but, I lived most of my adult life in Vancouver where Transit is actually being expanded to all corners and I wish Toronto, and Ontario for that matter, would open up the purse strings and start funding public transit. Maybe not go too far into debt like the state of California has and the country of Spain, but both those regions went massively into debt to fund public transit. California is incredible with what the did to that city. LA had ripped up all its streetcar track by 1963 ('Who Framed Roger Rabbit') and only had city and regional buses until 1984. Since 1984, the city that used to be the king of traffic jams, (Toronto is king now), LA now has 126.5 km of rail lines. This 126.5 k is divided up by two subway lines and 3 LRT lines all since 1984. With California in debt they are still expanding the system; they are currently building the Expo line that will add about 14 k of rail line and will give the residents of Culver City a rapid transit link to downtown.

California is not perfect I know, but I think the governments there and in Spain show a lot of courage by investing so heavily in Public Transit in all its forms, commuter rail, streetcar, LRT, Subway and buses (who knows what else). If Ontario wants to remain the a place that is going to stay economically competitive and not kill the environment AS much we have to start some heavy duty investment in public transit, and not on the cheap either, everything has to be accessible for all people. I have read about tolls and this is something I would support and I would also support Ontario going more into debt for this as well because like I said it will make Ontario more economically and enviromentally healthy AND we will be able to pay back this debt because business' will still set up shop here because workers will have a good PT system to help get them around. Toronto is falling behind and we have to put a stop to this slide.

 

[hbl33]

California is not perfect I know, but I think the governments there and in Spain show a lot of courage by investing so heavily in Public Transit in all its forms, commuter rail, streetcar, LRT, Subway and buses (who knows what else). If Ontario wants to remain the a place that is going to stay economically competitive and not kill the environment AS much we have to start some heavy duty investment in public transit, and not on the cheap either, everything has to be accessible for all people. I have read about tolls and this is something I would support and I would also support Ontario going more into debt for this as well because like I said it will make Ontario more economically and enviromentally healthy AND we will be able to pay back this debt because business' will still set up shop here because workers will have a good PT system to help get them around. Toronto is falling behind and we have to put a stop to this slide.

Spain is in credit crunch. I would count them out at this moment. Financially aside, it's sure a role model to proper transit planning. Cali, Van City is more a shining light to proper transit development in NA. Ontario is officially falling behind BC, Alberta, and Quebec.

 

[Rainforest]

Yup...tunneled (or otherwise grade-separated) lines cost more.

Yes, but is it worth building lower-capacity LRT for almost the cost of HRT?

The intent was to build LRT as a cost-effective alternative to subways. Actually, it appears that we just reduce capacity on both the Eglinton and Kennedy - STC corridors, without any noticeable cost reduction.

I'm curious why Finch is so expensive though. I get that the 400 crossing might be pricey, but otherwise it's pretty roomy through most of that stretch.

Another reason is that they have to build a carhouse whose cost is fixed. Their estimate for the currently unfunded 6-km Keele - Yonge section is about 465 million. If that cost and that length is added, the average for the whole line would go from 116 down to about 102 million / km.

 

[Fresh Start]

Metrolinx's new plan for Eglinton, SLRT, Sheppard, Finch, and VivaNext

Summary table on Page 26 shows the projected total cost per line. Note that those costs are in "escalated dollars", i.e. inflation is taken into account.

Eglinton LRT (Jane to Kennedy). Timeframe: 2010 - 2020, length: 20 km, total cost: 6,065 million. Cost per km: 303 million.

Comparing to the Spadina subway extension (scheduled completion in 2015): total cost about 2,650 million, length about 8.3 km. Cost per km: 319 million. Finch W and Sheppard E are still much cheaper than that, but Eglinton is in the same league and SLRT is not far behind.

If these cost projections are to be taken as objective truth, then there's absolutely no reason why the City/TTC/Metrolinx should not be pursuing subway technology underneath Eglinton from the get-go. PIA to the DVP is the critical section of the line anyway, which poses the unique cost-savings opportunity to trench (through the Richview corridor) and elevate (paralleling Hwy 27 & Dixon Rd; east of Brentcliffe Rd) for roughly half the total route distance.

Oh well, I least they've promised to fasttrack the start of the tunnel construction to this coming January. We'll have to wait and see when/if that pans out, then hopefully democracy will prevail and the majority opinion on the mode to be used through said tunnel will be listened to.

 

[hbl33]

I still think that the price seems grossly overinflated. Tunneling costs that damn much? Yet worse, streetcar line pricing are hella overpriced!

 

[Fresh Start]

It reminds me in a lot of ways of a Ponzi scheme. But apparently I'm not allowed to voice that sentiment because I represent a grassroots advocacy group. Oy vey!

 

[TOareaFan]

Financially aside, it's sure a role model to proper transit planning.

One thing we (the whole world) needs to learn from the debt crisis in the European countries that are hitting the wall (the PIGS nations) is that you can't separate transit (or other department) expenditures from the financial implications. Sure it is great that Spain has better transit to get to their jobs...but if the nation's finances collapse what good is it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is Metrolinx's Five-in-Ten Plan like LA's 30/10 Transit Plan? But in reverse?

The “30-10†transit plan to build nine new rail and three new bus rapid transit lines over a decade is a really big deal. That infusion of investment ($18 billion for transit capital out of a total $30 billion for capital and operations) and jobs (166,000) could jolt LA County at least part-way out of the recession. But even more importantly, the coalition that has come together in support of 30-10 – business, labor, enviros, elected officials, Metro board members – is also a big deal. Some say it’s the first time the L.A. County Congressional delegation has ever united in support of something.

 

[tkip]

Too little, too late....

I'm in my 40's and I know that the train has left the station so to speak on transit expansion in this city. We had our chance and it was blown and the car won. I expect that in the decades leading up to my old age, still nothing will be done about transit in this city and by the time anything meaningful is actually started, I'll be dead and buried.

This city has become a joke on how it's managed and handled by the polictians. There is simply no vision at all and the solution seems to be to throw out the ocassional token project and watch people pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

 

[hbl33]

I'm in my 40's and I know that the train has left the station so to speak on transit expansion in this city. We had our chance and it was blown and the car won. I expect that in the decades leading up to my old age, still nothing will be done about transit in this city and by the time anything meaningful is actually started, I'll be dead and buried.

This city has become a joke on how it's managed and handled by the polictians. There is simply no vision at all and the solution seems to be to throw out the ocassional token project and watch people pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

[video=youtube;At-pfAFUldE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At-pfAFUldE&feature=related[/video]

Don't worry, Toronto is feeling alright. Perhaps this Japanese video should do relieve the stress.

 

[Rainforest]

If these cost projections are to be taken as objective truth, then there's absolutely no reason why the City/TTC/Metrolinx should not be pursuing subway technology underneath Eglinton from the get-go.

Yes. The original Eglinton LRT proposal was priced at 2.2 billion for 30 km (Martin Grove to Kennedy, with possible future extensions to PIA and Mississauga). They probably hoped to build 9 km of tunnel (Keele to Laird) for something like $150 million/km, and the remaining 21 km of surface ROW for 40 million/km.

If that was doable, I'd say it is a good value for the money.

Once the design work started, the expected price grew to 3.4 billion, then 4.6 ... and now we are at 6 billion for a truncated 20-km line. Only half of that line would be tunneled, but the average per km cost almost matches that of the fully tunneled TYSSE.

Having that kind of cost estimates and still pursuing LRT in this corridor borders insanity.

Oh well, I least they've promised to fasttrack the start of the tunnel construction to this coming January. We'll have to wait and see when/if that pans out, then hopefully democracy will prevail and the majority opinion on the mode to be used through said tunnel will be listened to.

One problem is that in June Metrolinx wants to place the light-rail vehicle order (including vehicles for Eglinton) and the order for TBMs. If those orders are placed, it will be harder for the next mayor to change the technology. And the last thing we need is paying penalties for the changes in the vehicle order size and the TBM specs out of the already scarce transit funds.