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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

TOareaFan said:
So, is that enough track layed to actually take a delivery and start testing? To my laymen eyes/ears it sounds like “no” but I will defer to people with more real knowledge.
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Regardless of whether the yard is ready, a contract is a contract. They need to deliver the trains even if they will sit idle in the yard for months and they will be in breach of they don't show up in Feb.
I suspect they altered the construction schedule after the initial delays. They most likely wouldve had tracks ready ages ago if the original schedule was followed
 
Most interesting thing in that article was the statement that the ML cars will be delivered by truck, not rail.

ML needs more than track to test the cars. They need the shop finished, and fitted out. The building shell has been up for a long time, but we don't know if it is fully finished and furnished. And, there have to be enough people facilities to house the workers who will do the tests. So long as the MSF site is still a construction zone, ML may not have the right to put anybody there to do work, and the testing might conflict with construction equipment etc.

Sure, they could ship the cars and park them at the MSF - but they would be just sitting there, untested and unaccepted.

- Paul
 
cplchanb said:
Regardless of whether the yard is ready, a contract is a contract. They need to deliver the trains even if they will sit idle in the yard for months and they will be in breach of they don't show up in Feb.
I suspect they altered the construction schedule after the initial delays. They most likely wouldve had tracks ready ages ago if the original schedule was followed
Click to expand...

They won't just "sit idle". Each unit has to be tested for 600+ km, even if they just go around in circles in the yard. Then each driver will have to be taught how to use them, and get experience on them.
 
cplchanb said:
Regardless of whether the yard is ready, a contract is a contract. They need to deliver the trains even if they will sit idle in the yard for months and they will be in breach of they don't show up in Feb.
I suspect they altered the construction schedule after the initial delays. They most likely wouldve had tracks ready ages ago if the original schedule was followed
Click to expand...
I guess I would just be a little suspicious of the changes requested that pushed the vehicle into a delivery window in December that could not be handled.....if ML wasn’t ready for delivery, finding fault might be a good strategy
 
I'm still not getting why Metrolinx need to have them delivered 3 years before the line opens. Metrolinx made a big mistake in not changing the term s of the contract instead of just trying to lay blame on Bombardier. Metytlonx is just showing the inexperience when it comes to building light rail and dealing with city councils. The moment that the Sheppard East line was put on hold and the SRT replacement was changed to being a subway they should have cancelled the existing order with Bombardier and struck a new one or renegotiated one for the vehicles they needed with a delivery schedule that made sense for the project instead of keeping to old secudels.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
I'm still not getting why Metrolinx need to have them delivered 3 years before the line opens.
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Particularly when the TTC staff who will be driving/maintaining them are already on a similar Bombardier product. Training shouldn't be a huge step for them.

ION in Kitchener, it probably did take 3 years to train staff since nearly everything to do with the system (tracks, signals, electrical, driving a vehicle that can't steer, etc.) is completely new to them, and even then they delayed delivery of some vehicles to delay starting the warranty clock.

It'll be interesting to see if Bombardier has any Ontario railway (or aerospace) manufacturing remaining in 10 years.
 
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rbt said:
It'll be interesting to see if Bombardier has any Ontario railway (or aerospace) manufacturing remaining in 10 years.
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One of the things to bear in mind is that there seems to be a lot of interest in separating aerospace from transportation... Though when I've seen the talk it's been from people who seem to misapprehend aerospace as the real moneymaker. I get the feeling that a lot of people involved in Bombardier don't actually understand the company particularly well.
 
TOareaFan said:
So, is that enough track layed to actually take a delivery and start testing? To my laymen eyes/ears it sounds like “no” but I will defer to people with more real knowledge.
Click to expand...

Absolutely it is, at least for the first initial stages of testing. At some point they will need access to the mainline track for things like the dynamic vehicle envelope, interfacing with platforms and the performance envelope of the vehicle, but that's quite a few months down the road of testing.

TOareaFan said:
f ML wasn’t ready for delivery, finding fault might be a good strategy
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It's not like they haven't tried it before...

Dan
 
W. K. Lis said:
They won't just "sit idle". Each unit has to be tested for 600+ km, even if they just go around in circles in the yard. Then each driver will have to be taught how to use them, and get experience on them.
Click to expand...
You can't do that 600 km burn in on the yard track. you must do it on the mainline with all the specialized equipment activated otherwise the burn in doesn't count. so essentially without the mainline track they will be sitting idle in the yard because there's only so much testing you can do on the yard track.
 
crs1026 said:
Most interesting thing in that article was the statement that the ML cars will be delivered by truck, not rail.
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Why would they use a transport truck instead of the rail delivery option similar to how the TTC receives its new streetcars? Is the CP Rail connection to the Mount Dennis OSF not ready yet?
 
Allandale25 said:
Why would they use a transport truck instead of the rail delivery option similar to how the TTC receives its new streetcars? Is the CP Rail connection to the Mount Dennis OSF not ready yet?
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I'm just speculating - possibly the assured delivery in 8 hours or less (even at 60 km/hr down the 401) versus a rail trip with 4 switching moves en route, all of which the railways will charge for, and each of which represents a possible 24 hours or more of dwell. Trip length of 160 miles instead of 1,000 miles (ie, not the long line haul that the TTC cars had.... trucking fees plus OPP escort would have been insanely expensive from Thunder Bay to Toronto, but are much less for the shorter Millhaven-Toronto run). No demurrage for rail transport cars, which will take another 5 days to return to Kingston for the next car, and attract the same switching charges on the way back.

- Paul
 
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crs1026 said:
I'm just speculating - possibly the assured delivery in 8 hours or less (even at 60 km/hr down the 401) versus a rail trip with 4 switching moves en route, all of which the railways will charge for, and each of which represents a possible 24 hours or more of dwell. Trip length of 160 miles instead of 1,000 miles (ie, not the long line haul that the TTC cars had.... trucking fees plus OPP escort would have been insanely expensive from Thunder Bay to Toronto, but are much less for the shorter Millhaven-Toronto run). No demurrage for rail transport cars, which will take another 5 days to return to Kingston for the next car, and attract the same switching charges on the way back.
Click to expand...
There was no indication that they'd ship it all the way from Kingston to Toronto by truck. Only that a police escort would be necessary during the shipping. It could have been simply from the delivery yard in Toronto to Mount Dennis. The same way that first Flexity vehicles for TTC were also trucked before the delivery spur was completed at Hillcrest.

But I'm only guessing ...
 
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