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Metrolinx $55 Billion Plan

Just a few things to keep in mind as this discussion moves forward:

* The information published in the Globe and Mail is far from complete, and speculating about what is or isn't in the actual plan isn't very useful in my opinion because there won't be any way to answer them.

* The final plan will come with an investment strategy detailing how the improvements will be paid for. Some of this investment will come from funding grants from upper levels of government, but other portions will come from funding sources that we will control at the local level.

It's unfortunate that this leak, sneak peak or whatever you want to call it occurred, but I guess that's life in the game of politics. But one thing I would like to ask everyone is to please be patient for the real release.

If you're going to become cynical and opposed, then it would would be much better to become cynical of the real proposal.
 
$55 billion is less than 50% is what is needed to but transit into the GTHA now, not including roads.

It was $60B back in 2003 before a lot of other things surface.

Adam has said he needs $40B to put TC underground.

The problem I see is, no one is welling to put that shocking sticker price out there now that will be needed to deal with further needs as well deal with gridlock and most of all "GHG". It continue the practices of doing things cheap and wait for the next guy to setup and take the heat for the cost.

TC is already on course to cost an extra 50% to built it.

Where is the money to cover the operation cost just to deal with the current systems let alone add in this RTP?

I guess a few projects are not going to make it to the RTP stage at this time.

This could be a ploy to get the real cost under the radar by bring out a scale down plan at the end of the month and bring the real plan out after the "Public" has a say to say this is what the "Public" wants to justify the big sticker price.
 
I don't like how Eglinton appears to be becoming the lightning rod for this Metrolinx vs. TTC showdown. Transit City has more than it's share of issues but, imo, the Eglinton Crosstown is actually a pretty decent idea. Metrolinx might be better off to focus on small details wrt to the Crosstown LRT, like why not run the LRT in the Richview corridor or why not single tunnel it instead of double tunneling. It makes no sense to hold up the Eglinton LRT while green lighting the Jane, Malvern or Sheppard LRTs.
 
$55 billion is less than 50% is what is needed to but transit into the GTHA now, not including roads.
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That's still better than what we've been getting in recent decades. Dalton McGinty obviously gets what we need. He's doing all the right things. No need to be so cynical.
 
Seriously, Toronto, the Province, and the Federal Government too, need to get their act together and build a world-class transit system for GTA area, subways, electrified trains, and all. Transit is one aspect of a world-class city.

Livinging in Tokyo, I take many of the city's subways and other rail on a daily basis, and let me tell you--I love it. It makes my life so much easier commuting from home to work and back on Tokyo's convenient transportation system, albeit crowded at times. It's better than having to own a car and the expenses and hassles that come with it. That, and it does nothing for our quality of life. Just a few hours ago, I hopped on a train, then another to get to Yoyogi park to go running at a track with joggers. The same trip in Toronto would have taken three times as long and cost just as much, and so I propably wouldn't have bothered. (I won't even mention the savings to the environment of using transit. That's obvious.)

One reason I'm not moving back to Toronto is that I don't view it as a truly world class city. And when asked why, the first reason I invariably offer is the poorly funded, out-of-date transit system which is over-priced, unreliable, and runs with little frequency.

The people on the Metrolinx board and in the Provincial Government aren't idiots. Some of these people realize that now is the time to make a huge investment in the GTA's transportation network. RedRocket has duly kept us uptodate on the discussions going on at these levels and some bold ideas have been set out. Now, however, is the time for all levels of government to get serious and go big and bold on transit projects and fund them to the hilt. Transit is one aspect of a world class city, and one way in which the region stands to benefit, by drawing many of the world's best minds to the Toronto area.

Miller and the TTC's stance about not wanting to build a subway along Eglinton is complete idiocy. I mean how many cities that spent massive amounts of taxpayer money to build transit infrastructure later regretted the decision to do so. I don't hear the government officiails in Bilbao or Madrid saying, "Gosh, back in the 80s and 90s we built too many subway lines." Although, I'm sure there are a few officials who'd say they didn't build enough. It's like the classic line goes, "If you build it, they will come." And it'll be one more reason to entice me home just a bit sooner.
 
Miller and the TTC's stance about not wanting to build a subway along Eglinton is complete idiocy.
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Totally agree with this. Ideology is blinding them to not see what the province is looking to offer them. And I voted for Miller.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Eglinton isn't that much longer than the 18.5km Canada Line in Vancouver, which has an underground segment of comparable length and uses technology similar to the Scarborough RT. It cost $1.8 billion.
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Canada Line has very short platforms (small stations) and was cheaply built using cut and cover (mind you, part of Sheppard was built cut and cover too) or elevated. The cars (3.0m wide) are bigger than Skytrain/RT cars so the tunnel diameters are comparable to TTC subway dimensions.
If TTC is scaling for full 6 car TTC subway no wonder it's projected to cost so much. Scale it appropriately (shorter trains, smaller, shallow stations) and the cost will come down.
Plus, build it as a P3 and the private sector will bring the cost down (i.e. Italian tunnel contractors who hire Costa Rican tunnel workers).
 
(i.e. Italian tunnel contractors who hire Costa Rican tunnel workers).
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This from a city that buys subways from one company because they make them in Thunder Bay? Not going to happen.
 
A subway is defined as an electric railway operating below the surface of the ground.

When the first subway in North America was built in Boston, it used the streetcars of time, and uses light-rail today. When New York City built its subway, it used heavy-rail.

Back in the 1940's, Toronto presented its plans for two subway lines. Yonge Street was to use heavy-rail, while Queen Street was to use streetcars under the street. Only the Yonge Street heavy-rail line was built. The Queen Street light-rail subway fell by the wayside, unless it is brought back to life in the Metrolinx's plan as well.

So we'll have to wait to see what the definition Metrolinx will be using.
 
Conrad Black said:
Totally agree with this. Ideology is blinding them to not see what the province is looking to offer them. And I voted for Miller.
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Is the province really offering anything? Do we know to what extent Metrolinx really speaks for the province? It's Board of Directors are all muni-politicians, so it's not like they really represent the province. McGuinty has thus far refused to upload the costs he pledged to in the election, and to be fair is running virtually no surplus. Raising taxes when Ontario is potentially heading into a recession would very much play against him in his conflict with the federal government.
 
Subways, subways, sis boom baa. Subways, subways, rah, rah, rah. In your face Giambrone.
Whooooooooooooooooooo!

OK... I have watched Stephen Colbert too frequently.

On a more serious note: I really like the talk about 15 minute service by GO, the downtown subway, and metro-like service on Eglinton which I am guessing is transit city or SRT, not a subway. The wording for the downtown line is "subway", whereas the wording for Eglinton is "subway or subway-like" clearly opening the door to transit city or SRT in a tunnel.
 
RedRocket191 said:
Does it really matter though? Isn't the speed and capacity the issue? Not the shape and colour?
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Yes, it quite clearly and obviously matters, because if W.K.Lis' definition was correct and used by anyone other than a few transit geeks on the internet, Eglinton would already be getting a "subway" line as part of Transit City.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
Yes, it quite clearly and obviously matters, because if W.K.Lis' definition was correct and used by anyone other than a few transit geeks on the internet, Eglinton would already be getting a "subway" line as part of Transit City.
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Well we'll just have to wait a few weeks to see for sure, won't we?:)
 
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