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Mayor John Tory's Toronto

On many weekends this summer and fall, the Yonge subway line between Bloor and Eglinton was closed. Do people complaining about these runs affecting service not even use public transit? Or do they have selective memory.

picard102 said:
This sort of black and white nonsense is idiotic.
But you did say Tory was out of touch because he's old, so I shouldn't expect anything but divisive sound bites.
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Yes Tory is out of touch and really really old. Same age as me but I stay off the private golf course and do runs and triathlons on public roads instead.

Are you saying Tory is not out of touch? Talk about divisive sound bites:
John Tory said:
“Young women, right now, learn how to play golf,” Tory said. “It’s immensely advantageous to your career … you can say that’s ridiculous, but it puts you in places … The world still works on the basis that if people see you and hear you and talk to you, they’re going to know you better than people they don’t hear or see or talk to.”
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Maybe his world works on the basis of meeting and seeing other CEOs in the privileged, private golf club's bar & restaurant, but my world is much more street-level and much less ridiculous.
 
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The Golem said:
On many weekends this summer and fall, the Yonge subway line between Bloor and Eglinton was closed. Do people complaining about these runs affecting service not even use public transit? Or do they have selective memory.
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To be fair, unlike the marathon races, these closures were common knowledge to most TTC users and had adequate publicity throughout the TTC network, on social media and on the local news.

Essential upgrades requiring weekend closures are not the same as closing the TTC off for an event.


And for the love of these holidays, can we not bring up the golf course comments again? Pretty sure we have like 15 pages dedicated to that earlier in this thread.
 
Ill never be a Tory fan but Im glad he won in this instance. As for traffic calming I feel there has been a lack of coordination on where road construction and events and TTC maintenance collide. This town needs a "movement czar" . Your average person knows that a balance of all traffic is in everyone's best interest. Its has not been uncommon to try a route and find one issue after the other on every.alternative. The users of our roads expect and deserve a coordinated effort to keep surface routes or reasonable detours open for all. Tory is knocking off low hanging fruit which is correct IMO. Its time to go free Subway before 7a.m. as a pilot run and not allow any commercial real estate building permits without adequate loading docks-
messenger depots built into the design. That paperless society thing just didnt happen. Documents are still being delivered daily and bike messengers are a great part of the mix but our climate is a huge factor.
I love this site and the posters on it Happy New Year.

ETA is a drive through courier depot with a notarized guard at booth to sign for documents unreasonable in the ground floor of an office tower for professionals? It would be grudge money in most cases as its not glamorous but new thinking is required.
 
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freshcutgrass said:
Actually, I think I recall there being more than two marathons that shut down the whole downtown core surface transit.

The Santa parade actually allows the streetcars to get through. Parades have gaps that allow for this. Caribana doesn't affect any streetcars. I don't remember if Pride parade allows streetcars through, but it does not affect all east-west streetcar routes downtown as the marathons do.

Marathons do not have gaps and you can't just stop runners for a few minutes periodically to let streetcars through the way you can with a parade. For whatever reason, they make sure the marathon routes cut off every single east-west surface transit route in the entire downtown core. That's simply absurd. This is why "alternate routes" don't work (unless you think a 10-mile diversion is your idea of practical). And almost nobody is going to have prior knowledge that the marathon is happening...it simply isn't common knowledge.

Of course we should all the events we want...including all the marathons people want to organize.

The serious issue here is shutting down public transit. You simply do not do this. And Toronto is famous for screwing up transit (especially streetcars) willy-nilly....they are just so unbelievably cavalier about it too. The idea that it is ok to shut down public transit for anything less than an unavoidable disaster or emergency is very, very stupid. It isn't called an essential service for nothing.

The crazy thing is that the solution is just so easy.... coming up with a suitable marathon route that doesn't interfere with public transit....or at the very least not paralyze the entire downtown core's surface public transit.
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We should replace the Gardiner with a marathon specific track, elevated of course to spare people from seeing such events, or better yet, an underground track so they can run (no pun intended) things all year round. The later can be linked to Union station and Path to ensure separation from the community at large.
 
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freshcutgrass said:
Actually, I think I recall there being more than two marathons that shut down the whole downtown core surface transit.

The Santa parade actually allows the streetcars to get through. Parades have gaps that allow for this. Caribana doesn't affect any streetcars. I don't remember if Pride parade allows streetcars through, but it does not affect all east-west streetcar routes downtown as the marathons do.

Marathons do not have gaps and you can't just stop runners for a few minutes periodically to let streetcars through the way you can with a parade. For whatever reason, they make sure the marathon routes cut off every single east-west surface transit route in the entire downtown core. That's simply absurd. This is why "alternate routes" don't work (unless you think a 10-mile diversion is your idea of practical). And almost nobody is going to have prior knowledge that the marathon is happening...it simply isn't common knowledge.

Of course we should all the events we want...including all the marathons people want to organize.

The serious issue here is shutting down public transit. You simply do not do this. And Toronto is famous for screwing up transit (especially streetcars) willy-nilly....they are just so unbelievably cavalier about it too. The idea that it is ok to shut down public transit for anything less than an unavoidable disaster or emergency is very, very stupid. It isn't called an essential service for nothing.

The crazy thing is that the solution is just so easy.... coming up with a suitable marathon route that doesn't interfere with public transit....or at the very least not paralyze the entire downtown core's surface public transit.
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Yeah, it's certainly irresponsible that there is a total media blackout about these events in the days leading up to them. And, similarly, it's deplorable that the CBC would never think to release an exhaustive list of road closures and transit routes affected.
 
freshcutgrass said:
We've had one all along. The problem was that the movement was of the bowel variety.
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Tee hee. I'd also like to know how well the Union Pearson express diverts traffic at its posted price. If we are losing billions to gridlock perhaps user fees should not be the main funding mechanism for projects that help ease the problem. I think the price needs to drop to attract enough users to feel the difference. I would love to be wrong though.
 
freshcutgrass said:
Actually, I think I recall there being more than two marathons that shut down the whole downtown core surface transit.
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Toronto hosts two marathons a year -- one in May and one in October. They're held on the same day every year and run the same route. Neither shuts down "the whole downtown core surface transit". I'm sorry that your antiquing is inconvenienced twice a year, but I'm pretty sure you'll live.
 
Gavin said:
Toronto hosts two marathons a year -- one in May and one in October. They're held on the same day every year and run the same route. Neither shuts down "the whole downtown core surface transit". I'm sorry that your antiquing is inconvenienced twice a year, but I'm pretty sure you'll live.
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FCG's facts are dubious, they have been making the same argument even in the presence of proven facts for days. IMO any reasonable person would not be as inflexible as FCG.
 
Gavin said:
Toronto hosts two marathons a year -- one in May and one in October. They're held on the same day every year and run the same route. Neither shuts down "the whole downtown core surface transit". I'm sorry that your antiquing is inconvenienced twice a year, but I'm pretty sure you'll live.
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Really? This is directly from the TTC's website....

Toronto Transit Commission service on many routes will be on diversion this Sunday, October 19, during the annual Scotiabank Waterfront Marathon. The marathon will result in significant transit and traffic delays, and the closure of many roads.

TTC routes affected include:

• 5 Avenue Road
• 6 Bay
• 22A Coxwell
• 64 Main
• 65 Parliament
• 75 Sherbourne
• 83 Jones
• 92 Woodbine South
• 94 Wellesley
• 172 Cherry Street
• 300 Bloor-Danforth
• 310 Bathurst
• 320 Yonge
• 501 Queen
• 504 King
• 505 Dundas
• 506 Carlton
• 509 Harbourfront
• 510 Spadina
• 511 Bathurst
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So...you still want to argue that doesn't cover the "whole downtown core surface transit"?

It isn't about me...it's about an essential service used by a huge amount of people. It's a matter of principal.

Why don't you add up the ridership numbers for all those routes listed for the six hours they are affected by the marathon, and then explain to me how you justify shutting down essential services for a non emergency that could just as easily be held on a route that doesn't have this affect.
 
JWBF said:
We should replace the Gardiner with a marathon specific track, elevated of course to spare people from seeing such events, or better yet, an underground track so they can run (no pun intended) things all year round. The later can be linked to Union station and Path to ensure separation from the community at large.
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Sounds like a Yonge Street relief line! To be fair to John Tory, he has always been a supporter of a Yonge St relief line since the beginning of the campaign, but he never explicitly said what kind of relief he envisioned. Perhaps we will hear an announcement soon about getting these pesky runners of the street, that can be done in 7 months not 7 years or 17 years.
 
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salsa said:
Sounds like a Yonge Street relief line! To be fair to John Tory, he has always been a supporter of a Yonge St relief line since the beginning of the campaign, but he never explicitly said what kind of relief he envisioned. Perhaps we will hear an announcement soon about getting these pesky runners of the street, that can be done in 7 months not 7 years or 17 years.
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Agreed, Tory now has to crystalize his vague statements. Will he give direction to improve the city or show us that Toronto will just be one big DIY project.
 
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