TOareaFan
Superstar
I drive Adelaide in the morning rush often....there is a bus that runs along there during rush hour....can't speak for Richmond.
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Make King and Queen one way streets?
- Thread starter King of Kensington
- Start date
I drive Adelaide in the morning rush often....there is a bus that runs along there during rush hour....can't speak for Richmond.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
Yes!
junctionist
Senior Member
The problem is that the two streets are too far apart for streetcar users. Walking 400m versus 40m from the stop to a nearby storefront is 10x the walking distance. Throw in red lights and cramped sidewalks on north/south streets, and you end up with a situation that fewer people are willing to put up with. Transit use will fall on both streets. What do you think will happen to business activity on King and Queen when fewer people are willing to travel to those commercial areas to shop and dine?
This idea could work if bidirectional right of ways for streetcars were built on both streets--preserving current functionality for transit users (and making service more reliable). You could give the two remaining lanes over to one-way vehicular traffic. However, closing either King or Queen to cars completely is a better idea. Build wide sidewalks instead of the cramped bullshit we have right now. Put in a bidirectional streetcar ROW. Install bike lanes. Trying to accommodate streetcars, pedestrians, cyclists and private motorized vehicles in one space is too much.
Cars are the most inefficient use of road space, so we could really improve certain downtown streets by taking them out of the equation completely. When I walk down a cramped sidewalk and see streetcars and cars stuck in traffic and witness the many dangers facing cyclists, I get the sense that this situation isn't working for anyone. My alternative would make the situation very practical for 3 of 4 road users, and that would probably provide an incentive for the most drivers to switch to transit, cycling and walking--many are still able to.
This idea could work if bidirectional right of ways for streetcars were built on both streets--preserving current functionality for transit users (and making service more reliable). You could give the two remaining lanes over to one-way vehicular traffic. However, closing either King or Queen to cars completely is a better idea. Build wide sidewalks instead of the cramped bullshit we have right now. Put in a bidirectional streetcar ROW. Install bike lanes. Trying to accommodate streetcars, pedestrians, cyclists and private motorized vehicles in one space is too much.
Cars are the most inefficient use of road space, so we could really improve certain downtown streets by taking them out of the equation completely. When I walk down a cramped sidewalk and see streetcars and cars stuck in traffic and witness the many dangers facing cyclists, I get the sense that this situation isn't working for anyone. My alternative would make the situation very practical for 3 of 4 road users, and that would probably provide an incentive for the most drivers to switch to transit, cycling and walking--many are still able to.
CDL.TO
Moderator
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Johnny Au
Senior Member
I am opposed to the idea of making King and Queen one-way. They are too far apart from each other and there are already Richmond and Adelaide for that purpose.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
If there is a street pair that I can see converting to One-Way making sense it's Union and Wellington, mostly because Wellington is already one-way. Many will say this a non-starter given the narrowing of the street and renovations happening in front of Union Station. I don't see an issue with converting this section to one-way traffic given that people can exit from either side of a taxi in front of Royal York.
In all honesty, I could only see this happening if Front Street were somehow connected to the Gardiner.
In all honesty, I could only see this happening if Front Street were somehow connected to the Gardiner.
TOareaFan
Superstar
If only all three levels of government had promised (in fact actually deposited in an account)money to build something called the Front Street Extension and have that connect to the Gardiner.....if only they had promised to have this built and open in 2008.....oops, never mind, they did.....but David Miller killed that idea.
RC8
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure way more people choose to ride the streetcar, walk, or ride a bike on both Queen and King than to drive. It is foolish then to reconfigure the street to accommodate a minority which also happens to be represent the least efficient use of space, the most pronounced externalities, etc.
Making these streets one-way is a terrible idea.
Making these streets one-way is a terrible idea.
calimehtar
Active Member
What junctionist said. I actually think converting downtown streets to one way could be a practical way to widen sidewalks, add bike lanes and create transit right of ways. The old plan for king street comes to mind. Move the streetcar tracks to one side and change king to one way for cars. This allows wide sidewalks plus occasional cutouts for taxis and delivery vehicles to stop.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I still think the best way to go is to build the DRL with tight stop spacing on King, eliminate the King streetcar and replace it with bi directional car lanes, possibly even 5 thin lanes (3 meters instead of the standard 3.5) and stick a Jarvis style reversible middle lane, and then convert Queen into a pedestrianized street (or at least to your best possible ability, the few access points required for vehicles can become short woonerfs as they move to the closest possible north south through street). You get a streetcar ROW, subway service along King, as well as better vehicle throughput along King. East-West travel through the core would essentially be revolutionized with this..
Fred.S
Active Member
I think there's another thread on this topic already.
I think Queen-Richmond-Adeleide-King-Wellington-Front could all potentially be made one-way pairs between Bathurst and the Don. Streetcars may even been able to get seperated ROWs, whether it's one lane on every street or the one-way pairs only being for cars. Maybe there would even be room for seperated bike lanes. Having one direction on Queen, and another on Richmond, i think is reasonable, and a very short walk between directions.
I don't know all the benefits and drawbacks, but I think it's worth it for the city and the TTC to do a study.
I think Queen-Richmond-Adeleide-King-Wellington-Front could all potentially be made one-way pairs between Bathurst and the Don. Streetcars may even been able to get seperated ROWs, whether it's one lane on every street or the one-way pairs only being for cars. Maybe there would even be room for seperated bike lanes. Having one direction on Queen, and another on Richmond, i think is reasonable, and a very short walk between directions.
I don't know all the benefits and drawbacks, but I think it's worth it for the city and the TTC to do a study.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The plan for bike lanes is one way on both richmond and adelaide.
js97
Senior Member
I think it's a great idea. I'm not sure how liberty village users would all of a sudden not take public transit to work ( are they going to walk?). If you also implement it between Roncy/River, pinches, the once ways would naturally merge into the two way streets after.
Lastly, if implemented with car bans from the streetcar tracks during rush hour, it would substantially speed up the existing commutes. You could have service more often (one eastbound/west bound train as opposed to 2 eastbound/wesbound on both king and queen). It would effectively be a downtown relief line surface route, with no left turn obstacles, heck, if you want to put a curb and make it dedicated 'LRT'. ALL major US cities have one ways in their core, there are plenty of patios on the major avenues in NYC. The whole notion that 'one ways' destroy street vitality is such a false dichotomy. If you manage the speeds, it's perfectly possible. Philly is entirely one ways, but one of the most 'urban' 2nd tier cities in all of North America.
The current commute from liberty village to queen east is probably about 45 minutes at best. If you can shave it down to 25 minutes, I'm pretty sure riders would be willing to walk 400 meters (for faster, more frequent service)
Lastly, if implemented with car bans from the streetcar tracks during rush hour, it would substantially speed up the existing commutes. You could have service more often (one eastbound/west bound train as opposed to 2 eastbound/wesbound on both king and queen). It would effectively be a downtown relief line surface route, with no left turn obstacles, heck, if you want to put a curb and make it dedicated 'LRT'. ALL major US cities have one ways in their core, there are plenty of patios on the major avenues in NYC. The whole notion that 'one ways' destroy street vitality is such a false dichotomy. If you manage the speeds, it's perfectly possible. Philly is entirely one ways, but one of the most 'urban' 2nd tier cities in all of North America.
The current commute from liberty village to queen east is probably about 45 minutes at best. If you can shave it down to 25 minutes, I'm pretty sure riders would be willing to walk 400 meters (for faster, more frequent service)
Forgotten
Active Member
Catering to minority special interests to net very marginal gains for that group while the majority gets it worse. There's a word for that: communism.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Is that really the definition of communism? I always saw that as a doctrine the put the rights of the collective above any individual rights....but I might have that wrong.