News   Jan 15, 2025
News Roundup for January 15, 2025
 153     0 
News   Jan 15, 2025
Winter Delivery
 349     1 
News   Jan 14, 2025
Kazmir and Curio Condos Top Off Along The Queensway
 596     0 

London Rapid Transit (In-Design)

 
It looks like the BRT proposal in London is going to die. The biggest proponent of the plan was the current mayor who is not going to be seeking re-election and the opposition is galvanized and swaying public opinion against an already very skeptical public.

Personally I never saw the plan as a particularly good one and the PR was handled very poorly by City Hall. The reality is that London is not KW, Calgary, Ottawa, or Finch. London has a very solid built urban fabric and unlike those cities London doesn`t have any wide roads, abandoned railways, unused industrial corridors, or greenways they can take advantage of. Due to this the BRT proposal would have required huge land acquisitions in the inner city meaning the destruction of historic homes, buildings, and hundreds of century old trees or the taking of car lanes in an already traffic chocked city with thin roads. Anyone who has tried to drive in London knows that, for it`s size, London traffic is the stuff legends are made of.

Even City Hall admitted that the increase in speed from this highly divisive `rapid` transit system would be negligible which had many Londoners legitimately asking............if we are spending half a billion dollars, what`s the point?
 
They already started construction on Dundas first 2 blocks and should be done by election time.

They removed the paving and was in the process of removing the sidewalk bricks when I saw it on the 11 & 12.

The person I know in London said everyone is s fool since they don't have a clue what is good for them as well riders using transit.

From my point of view, BRT is the right chose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jys
BRT is definitely the way to go.
ssiguy2 said:
It looks like the BRT proposal in London is going to die. The biggest proponent of the plan was the current mayor who is not going to be seeking re-election and the opposition is galvanized and swaying public opinion against an already very skeptical public.

Personally I never saw the plan as a particularly good one and the PR was handled very poorly by City Hall. The reality is that London is not KW, Calgary, Ottawa, or Finch. London has a very solid built urban fabric and unlike those cities London doesn`t have any wide roads, abandoned railways, unused industrial corridors, or greenways they can take advantage of. Due to this the BRT proposal would have required huge land acquisitions in the inner city meaning the destruction of historic homes, buildings, and hundreds of century old trees or the taking of car lanes in an already traffic chocked city with thin roads. Anyone who has tried to drive in London knows that, for it`s size, London traffic is the stuff legends are made of.
Click to expand...
Yes, yes, yes, nothing is perfect. But building this in the future will require less land acquisitions? If anything, the impact will be bigger the later this is built. The need for rapid transit may not seem so pressing right now, but the point is that we are supposed to built transit when it's still comfortable to meet a need in the future, not playing catch up and building when the need is dire.
 
drum118 said:
They already started construction on Dundas first 2 blocks and should be done by election time.

They removed the paving and was in the process of removing the sidewalk bricks when I saw it on the 11 & 12.

The person I know in London said everyone is s fool since they don't have a clue what is good for them as well riders using transit.

From my point of view, BRT is the right chose.
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between the needs of University/College students and residents. I think everyone knows London needs some transit improvements. But the voters (residents) use transit much less frequency than the students (non-voters)

They could have shown a very substantial improvement for 1/4 the cost but they went all in and it's going to fail. Some cue-jumping lanes and some dedicated roads downtown for the bus network would have made a huge improvement and I hope it'll be salvaged at the end of the day.

Not even talking to the just-retired head engineer who knows the water issues on Richmond Row showed an utter lack of consultation with people that actually know London. And there are a lot of engineers in London who have easily spotted the other issues. If they brought them on early in the process and listened to them we could have been having a completely different conversation right now.
 
drum118 said:
They already started construction on Dundas first 2 blocks and should be done by election time.

They removed the paving and was in the process of removing the sidewalk bricks when I saw it on the 11 & 12.

The person I know in London said everyone is s fool since they don't have a clue what is good for them as well riders using transit.

From my point of view, BRT is the right chose.
Click to expand...


The Dundas reconstruction little to do with SHIFT itself as it was going ahead regardless. The Dundas Street rejuvenation is about bringing Dundas back to itès former glory by widening the sidewalks, getting rid of street parking, planting trees, bricking the entire street and very importantly not having any shoulder between the roadway and the sidewalk...............they are creating a true `Flexstreet` to be used as a gathering place and festivals.

As far as the BRT plan goes, it a shame so much time and effort has been spent and would be horrible if London lost out on those huge infrastructure funds but I never thought it was a very good proposal to begin with. I think the returns on placing that $500 million towards a rapid bus system would be money far better spent. They should follow Translink`s very successful B-Line system with enhancements.

Forget the bus lanes down the middle of the road and the huge construction problems, housing and building demolitions and destruction of countless century old trees. Use the funds to build a much larger B-Line system...........far fewer stops, real stations with arrival display, large shelters, and ticket machines, articulated buses with all-door boarding, traffic light priority with bus-lanes at major intersections, and high all-day frequency. By doing this the system could be easily more than twice the size as the current proposal, serve thousands of more residents and many more employment centres, serve the airport, and could actually be faster than what they are currently proposing. This would require little to no land acquisition and hence would be far more politically palatable and due to serving all areas of the city with far better transit would be much more welcomed than the current BRT plan which is very divisive and frankly, not very well received even by Londoners who want better transit.
 
The Dundas Street transformation will take the buses to King-Queen which will help improve things even if SHIFT doesn't happen.
-If interested I am taking daily progress pics from my office window that overlooks the Dundas-Talobt Street intersection: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=227206

As for the SHIFT project itself, I think I am becoming less and less optimistic about the project. I was a supporter of the LRT and hybrid plans with the tunnel under Richmond but cheapening out to full BRT without the tunnel has made the project less impressive. It will still cost a lot of $ and won't do much to improve transit times and will impact car travel. Lots of construction time pain too.

Also, Western University are bring pricks and are setting some unrealistic expectations to the city to get BRT through the university. If nothing else kills the project, their demands might be the final nail on the coffin unless they budge.

Investing transportation dollars into choke points, road gaps and new bridges would do a lot more to decrease travel times in the city.
 
Email from Councillor Jesse Helmer that I got:

-----

Good afternoon

I’m growing increasingly worried that politics may paralyze our progress in building a better city.

I’m a strong believer in “politics in full sentences,” as Mayors Don Iveson and Naheed Nenshi would say, so I’m going to try my best to explain, in detail, why I now support London’s bus rapid transit plan, despite not supporting it initially and advocating strongly for light rail, the tunnel and an underground station at Oxford and Richmond, all of which have been dropped from the original plan over time.

Over the past 3.5 years, along with my colleagues, I’ve attended a lot of rapid transit meetings and read more than 8,500 pages of reports on rapid transit.

Here's is an attempt to share some of what I’ve learned in those 8,500 pages in 8,500 words.

If you find it helpful, please share it with other folks who are interested in rapid transit.

Best,
Jesse

226-268-7536

https://medium.com/@jessehelmer/open-letter-to-londoners-on-rapid-transit-b6777ff9ea4a
 
Well it looks like any potential changes will be very minor and some downright negative.

Not particularly surprising for London as London has never been a 'bold' kind of place when it comes to most things and especially transportation. In some ways it's hesitancy has served it well as the city escaped the freeway building carnage of the 60's/70's and left the city with a solid built form but conversely has led to London current transportation woes.

As for 'being better than nothing' that is hardly a ringing endorsement and especially when there is $500 million on the line. The plan has even had a lot of transit supporters bewildered and unimpressed. The city has admitted that the difference in speed will be negligible {many will see their commute times increase due to the cancellation of their current downtown bus as they would now have to transfer onto the BRT} and considering the controversy, the number of trees and house in the inner city that would have to be bulldozed, Londoners were legitimately asking, what's the point?
 
Haljackey said:
The plan is very flawed but better than nothing.

Mayor is just one vote on council. Who gets elected as councilors matters 14x as much as mayor vote

...Until Douggie reduces London's council as well haha
Click to expand...

I actually quite like the BRT plan, minus the at-grade crossing near Oxford and Richmond. I hope London does the right thing and keeps forging ahead with this project.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top