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Liberals urged to protect Legislature skyline from condo development

Instead of preserving history, why not integrate it with a new present history. Why must every cultural aspect of our society be assume to be static and in need of preservation? Should all the modern buildings surrounding Queens Park be torn down and replaced with faux-historic buildings mimicking 19th century architecture?

Heritage and history is important, but obsession with its preservation can lead to a mockery of heritage and history. If they had that same attitude in the late 19th century, a place like Queens Park might never have been built in the first place, due to heritage concern. Such attitudes could just result in the loss of heritage more than preservation.

Queen's Park is part of the city of Toronto, always has been. It shouldn't be placed in a bubble, suspend in time.

People who oppose new building near Queens Parks reminds of right wingers who oppose immigration because of fears of that Canada is losing its culture. It is the same way of thinking.
 
You can say that we need to keep up with the times, but some people actually like historic architecture. It's not like every building in the city should remain unchanged, but is it too hard to ask for a few to keep a bit of their antiquity? It's not like there's a shortage of room for high rises in this city, far from it. And even if they must be in Yorkville, you can still put in condo units, they just can't be freakishly tall. I don't think that's a bad deal at all.
 
Instead of preserving history, why not integrate it with a new present history. Why must every cultural aspect of our society be assume to be static and in need of preservation? Should all the modern buildings surrounding Queens Park be torn down and replaced with faux-historic buildings mimicking 19th century architecture?

If you think the preservation community wants to tear down all of said modern buildings on behalf of faux-historic, you don't know the preservation community.
 
I think view corridors are great and all, but Toronto doesn't really lend itself to them, certainly not the Legislature. Comparing it to that picture that was posted, well there's just no comparison. I think it depends on the context, and in this context, I don't mind it.
 
I think view corridors are great and all, but Toronto doesn't really lend itself to them, certainly not the Legislature. Comparing it to that picture that was posted, well there's just no comparison. I think it depends on the context, and in this context, I don't mind it.

Really? Wow, we must just 'see' things differently. Queen's Park? Bay Street? Spadina? Notable buildings all over the city form view corridors, and even in the absence of mountains or other natural geographic features. To me this is the height of urbanity, creating art and beauty out of the public realm. Aside from Montmartre and away from the Seine Paris has very little in terms of natural attributes either.

Instead of preserving history, why not integrate it with a new present history. Why must every cultural aspect of our society be assume to be static and in need of preservation? Should all the modern buildings surrounding Queens Park be torn down and replaced with faux-historic buildings mimicking 19th century architecture?.

Your post totally lacks perspective (literally and figuratively). The city's past is being integrated all over the city and in very creative ways (Distillery, National Ballet, BA Centre, Five, etc). Toronto is anything but static and in fact could be considered quite the opposite. Besides, nobody here is suggesting the city be preserved in amber but we do also have to recognize the outstanding heritage/architectural landmarks of our public realm and treat them as so.

Heritage and history is important, but obsession with its preservation can lead to a mockery of heritage and history. If they had that same attitude in the late 19th century, a place like Queens Park might never have been built in the first place, due to heritage concern. Such attitudes could just result in the loss of heritage more than preservation.

Nonsense. NPS is just as preservation-worthy as Queen's Park. As Adma implies 'Heritage' is an evolving term that will come to embrace the best of the sublime and the ridiculous of all ages and styles.


People who oppose new building near Queens Parks reminds of right wingers who oppose immigration because of fears of that Canada is losing its culture. It is the same way of thinking.

Canadian values, as with Canadian design/architecture, continue to evolve. They build from the old and add with the new. It is neither a good idea to dismiss our origins or shut out progress, no matter what your political stripe.
 
I may be in the minority, but the Legislative building is in my opinion one of the ugliest 19th century buildings in the city--a ham-handed interpretation of Richardsonian Romanesque that one would expect to find somewhere in Utah or Texas. It's particularly painful when compared to Old City Hall, which pulls off the same style so effortlessly.
 
Ladies Mile:

Nope, you're not the only one to have raised this issue of the architectural worth of the Legislature- then again, IMO the value of preserving the view corridor in this case has less to do with the architecture but more to do with the symbolic values - i.e. seat of power, urban context as a view terminus for one of the very few grand throughfares in the city (Connaught Bulding at U of T for Spadina is another example), etc.

AoD
 
I may be in the minority, but the Legislative building is in my opinion one of the ugliest 19th century buildings in the city--a ham-handed interpretation of Richardsonian Romanesque that one would expect to find somewhere in Utah or Texas. It's particularly painful when compared to Old City Hall, which pulls off the same style so effortlessly.

I like its solidness and materials, but I am definitely not an expert on how well it is done.
 
Queen's Park is part of the city of Toronto, always has been. It shouldn't be placed in a bubble, suspend in time.
Nobody is suggesting placing it in a bubble - that's a straw man. Restricting high rises from certain areas of the city and preserving view corridors doesn't suspend them in time. The first high rises in Toronto were built well over a century ago - there's nothing modern about the concept. And there are many modern, high density neighbourhoods being developed that are low or mid-rise. And to go at it from another angle, integrating history into a new present history doesn't rule out preserving view corridors like this one.
 
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Yeah, tell New Yorkers, Londoners, Parisians, etc who've rallied against their own, uh, "unobstructive view" situations. They'd laugh your insensitive-jerkwater alibi (and spelling) out of the picture...

The fact that you personnaly attack someone just because they don't share the same opinion as you proves your lack of maturity. And as i have noted with your other posts it seems to be common with you.
You can always pack your bags and your suburbanite mentality and head for Oshawa where your suburban, vast lands, oversized yards and unsustainable living needs will be better served.
If you wanna debate and protest about the type of building that goes up behind the legislative building then yes i'll join you in that. However, to block any sort of construction because your picture will not be "cute", then heck no. I will not sit by and watch Toronto turn into the stagnant city Montreal has. I'm all for preserving historic buildings and Toronto has done a poor job of this, however historic views, no.
You complain about the traffic congestion and the lack of city services and how all high rise construction should cease because they're "ugly". So let's have everyone move to the burbs and add to the already ridiculous Toronto traffic and remove tax money from the city because we don't like big buildings so people can move into. While we're at it let's tear down the sheraton centre because it blocks our view of the city hall. Let's tear all the condos south of lake shore because they block our view of the lake. This whole complaining mentality is growing old.
As for the spelling, well when you have 5 seconds to type and are thinking in 4 different languages it gets a little hard and is normal to have some spelling mistakes. But i find it hard to believe that your "1 language world" narrow minded mentality can comprehend that. Do you even speak your own countries second official language?

And here's another legislative building from Quebec. Oh what's that........a building popping out. And that's in a city and province that is anti height and 1/6 the size of toronto.

http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/...quebec/quebeccity/parliament/06parliament.jpg
 
If you wanna debate and protest about the type of building that goes up behind the legislative building then yes i'll join you in that. However, to block any sort of construction because your picture will not be "cute", then heck no. I will not sit by and watch Toronto turn into the stagnant city Montreal has. I'm all for preserving historic buildings and Toronto has done a poor job of this, however historic views, no.

Er, Montreal, merely "stagnant"? She'd beg to differ

50_320.jpg


Not that you know who she is, of course.

You complain about the traffic congestion and the lack of city services and how all high rise construction should cease because they're "ugly". So let's have everyone move to the burbs and add to the already ridiculous Toronto traffic and remove tax money from the city because we don't like big buildings so people can move into. While we're at it let's tear down the sheraton centre because it blocks our view of the city hall. Let's tear all the condos south of lake shore because they block our view of the lake. This whole complaining mentality is growing old.
What's with the "you"? Am I part of that particular chorus? Heck, I'm one to *oppose* the bubbleheads eager to tear down the Sheraton Centre.

And here's another legislative building from Quebec. Oh what's that........a building popping out. And that's in a city and province that is anti height and 1/6 the size of toronto.

Er, if you're talking about this(your url came out "forbidden"), it isn't as if that wasn't controversial in its day or even helped spur Quebec into its "anti-height" stance (and not unjustifiably--though as with the Sheraton Centre, I wouldn't so blithely join in a "blow it up" chorus).

In fact, if you're going to use that as a pro- argument, you're truly proving your stupidity in matters of urban history over the past half century. It's like using "urban expressways" of the day (and the praise they sometimes get today; yeah, even a few Spacing types like the Gardiner and DVP--at least as fait accomplis) as an excuse for reviving the Spadina Expressway. And if you're going to be that historically stupid, you don't have a leg(islature) to stand on.

Your griping about "this whole complaining mentality" is like a teenager who loves blondes with big boobies griping about "this whole feminist mentality".
 
Hume: OMB puts Liberals in hot seat

By Christopher Hume
Urban Issues, Architecture

The irony won’t be lost on anyone in this province: Word from Queen’s Park is that the New Democrat Rosario Marchese will introduce a private member’s bill Thursday that would overrule the recent OMB decision to allow a highrise condo which critics complain would spoil the view of the Legislature.

The OMB — the Ontario Municipal Board — is a quasi-judicial provincial body that has final say over all planning matters in the province.

It can overturn decisions made by elected city officials, and does so routinely. In this case, however, the board upheld Toronto City Council’s approval of a condo complex proposed for the northwest corner of Bloor St. and Avenue Rd.

Although Minister of Culture Michael Chan refused to intervene, the Speaker of the House launched the OMB appeal that was ultimately unsuccessful.

But the legislature does have the power to trump the OMB, which is what the New Democrats hope will happen.

Of course, this is not an option for most Ontarians, who have had to live with board rulings they consider unfair and insensitive to local concerns.

Though the OMB often decides against developers, it has a reputation of being pro-development. Certainly, it presides over a winner-take-all process that tends to favor wealthy builders who can afford no end of expert witnesses to testify on their behalf.

Local neighbourhood groups feel they are at a disadvantage, unless their pockets are deep enough to fight all the way.

The bill and a motion the NDP introduced Wednesday would put the Liberals in a tricky situation. Though few would disagree with the contents, it raises important questions about the very existence of the OMB. No other province in Canada has such a body, and many cities do a much better job of planning than those in Ontario, especially Toronto.

Dating from the 19th century, the OMB was created to oversee municipalities that weren’t considered up to the task of self-governance.

As a result, the board has had a stultifying effect on planning. As the example of Toronto makes clear, planning is left to local councillors who routinely make their decisions for crass political reasons. At the same time, the Toronto planning department, demoralized and short 65 staff members, reports to a deputy city manager. Its advice is frequently ignored by city councillors more interested in catering to ward concerns than making the hard choices.

For more than a century, the OMB has let them off the hook.

Though Toronto’s Official Plan encourages high-density development on main streets, it has little to say about preserving heritage buildings or view corridors. The Province’s argument that the proposed condos would ruin the vistas looking north from points south of the Legislature comes a bit late in the day, but better late than never.

And let’s not forget that the province does not have to stop the condos from going ahead to get its way, only to limit their height.

On the other hand, if the Legislature does overrule the OMB, it would appear to confirm what Ontarians have been saying all along; namely that the board should have no business in local planning decisions in the province.

If Queen’s Park can tell the OMB to get lost, why can’t the rest of us?

Clearly, the time has come for a mature debate about city planning. No doubt that would be extremely difficult — and why it hasn’t become an election issue in Toronto’s current mayoral race remains a mystery.

But one thing is certain, as long as the OMB continues to exist, that discussion will never happen.

Christopher Hume can be reached at chume@thestar.ca


Chris is such a stud, love his writing.
 
So, having the politicos make planning choices is going to fix up our urban vistas ? And ex-Hume this critic while we're at it, and maybe he can help point us out of the wilderness that we may have our" mature debate about city planning ", and then on to a putative panel of tall foreheads, ( to replace the OMB ), to spoon out the ambrosia. First Queen's Park, then the world !
 

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