LCBO / The Beer Store

[Richard White]

Wasn't there a time you could get pure alcohol, or something very close to it from the LCBO? I'm guessing intended uses were for in cooking or baking by restaurants.

Yes!

It was called Alcohol 95. It was 95% and you needed a prescription to buy it (I tried once). You can still buy Everclear in some parts of the US which is pure grain alcohol.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I've witnessed several large scale thefts in various LCBO's over the last few years, and everybody is always so blasé and casual about it when it happens.

‘This is a daily occurrence’: Employees say LCBO theft that led to wrong-way 401 police chase is alarmingly common

Store thefts rose from just over a tenth of all shoplifting incidents in Toronto in 2014 to nearly half of all shoplifting incidents by halfway through 2018, according to data

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.ph/QML8o

The fix seems simple enough. No one touches the product unless they've paid for it. We don't need to physically hold the bottles before we purchase, as long as we can see the labels. Put the product behind the counter and install kiosks that show the consumer the labels to read and prices. Once I place my order and pay, the bottles are presented for pick-up. I know this sounds like the 1960s when we shamefully collected our booze in paper bags, but it can be done well with kiosks in the store, showing the inventory available, the years for each batch of wine, giving nuanced and useful info.

Here's the LCBO website store for red wines under $25. There's no need to physically touch the bottles to make a good decision. It's the only solution that will work - no one touches the product until they've paid for it.

 

[lenaitch]

‘This is a daily occurrence’: Employees say LCBO theft that led to wrong-way 401 police chase is alarmingly common

Store thefts rose from just over a tenth of all shoplifting incidents in Toronto in 2014 to nearly half of all shoplifting incidents by halfway through 2018, according to data

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.ph/QML8o

The fix seems simple enough. No one touches the product unless they've paid for it. We don't need to physically hold the bottles before we purchase, as long as we can see the labels. Put the product behind the counter and install kiosks that show the consumer the labels to read and prices. Once I place my order and pay, the bottles are presented for pick-up. I know this sounds like the 1960s when we shamefully collected our booze in paper bags, but it can be done well with kiosks in the store, showing the inventory available, the years for each batch of wine, giving nuanced and useful info.

Here's the LCBO website store for red wines under $25. There's no need to physically touch the bottles to make a good decision. It's the only solution that will work - no one touches the product until they've paid for it.

Yes, shades of the 1960s. If nothing else, it employed a lot of men (always) and most of them were WWII vets. The decor wouldn't need to be so Soviet-depression.

TVO Today | Current Affairs Journalism, Documentaries and Podcasts

www.tvo.org

 

[ShonTron]

Yes, shades of the 1960s. If nothing else, it employed a lot of men (always) and most of them were WWII vets. The decor wouldn't need to be so Soviet-depression.

TVO Today | Current Affairs Journalism, Documentaries and Podcasts

www.tvo.org

I would certainly agree for wines and spirits. Beer, cider, cooler, and seltzer cans can be kept self-serve as they are much less costly and are mix-and-match, unlike the bottles of wines and liquors. Encourage customers to pre-order with a (better) app as well.

 

[gabe]

‘This is a daily occurrence’: Employees say LCBO theft that led to wrong-way 401 police chase is alarmingly common

Store thefts rose from just over a tenth of all shoplifting incidents in Toronto in 2014 to nearly half of all shoplifting incidents by halfway through 2018, according to data

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.ph/QML8o

The fix seems simple enough. No one touches the product unless they've paid for it. We don't need to physically hold the bottles before we purchase, as long as we can see the labels. Put the product behind the counter and install kiosks that show the consumer the labels to read and prices. Once I place my order and pay, the bottles are presented for pick-up. I know this sounds like the 1960s when we shamefully collected our booze in paper bags, but it can be done well with kiosks in the store, showing the inventory available, the years for each batch of wine, giving nuanced and useful info.

Here's the LCBO website store for red wines under $25. There's no need to physically touch the bottles to make a good decision. It's the only solution that will work - no one touches the product until they've paid for it.

Privatize the LCBO like Alberta liquor stores. A private owner would not put up with this level of theft.

 

[lenaitch]

Privatize the LCBO like Alberta liquor stores. A private owner would not put up with this level of theft.

Perhaps. It's still a regulated product and I would imagine the LCBO (aka 'the government') would still be the supplier and have a lot of say in the sale of their products. The AGCO (aka 'the government') has huge input into the conduct of retailers and casinos and the way its products are offered. Even if privatized, lots of private retailers have a 'no intervention' policy for their employees; it's just that the the entire LCBO product line is highly attractive to vulnerable people for either consumption or re-sale.

 

[Admiral Beez]

it's just that the the entire LCBO product line is highly attractive to vulnerable people for either consumption or re-sale.

“vulnerable people”…. Sheesh. Let’s call them what they are, thieves, and often involved in organized crime. They're not stealing food to keep themselves or family fed, nor squatting due to need of shelter, things when we're desperate we might understand. Not everyone is broken, sometimes there are just bad people.

 

[Jonny5]

Privatize the LCBO like Alberta liquor stores. A private owner would not put up with this level of theft.

Perhaps. It's still a regulated product and I would imagine the LCBO (aka 'the government') would still be the supplier and have a lot of say in the sale of their products. The AGCO (aka 'the government') has huge input into the conduct of retailers and casinos and the way its products are offered. Even if privatized, lots of private retailers have a 'no intervention' policy for their employees; it's just that the the entire LCBO product line is highly attractive to vulnerable people for either consumption or re-sale.

Yeah private business is very much the same as the LCBO; they don't let staff intervene for insurance reasons, and outsourcing to private security is expensive and high risk because those private security are often poorly trained (the lowest cost security are immigrants to Canada as of last week) and their interventions are prone to major fuck-ups that cost those stores more in losses than the theft they are theoretically there to prevent, much of which they still don't stop as many are so bad at their jobs they miss it.

EDIT: I should add the above is of course because private security workers are generally in very shitty working positions. They are usually variable hour jobs with little predictability of when or sometimes even where you will work week to week. They often are saddled with expenses from their employers (you have to pay for your company uniform) which take a significant portion of their wage, and as a result the people applying for these jobs are generally people who have no better options open to them. For them it's working as a security guard, working the overnight shift at the Amazon warehouse, or working at the chicken butchering plant.

These people aren't going to risk a personal injury tackling someone for stealing a bottle of vodka. They'll just report it to the cops the same as LCBO employes do.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Just remove the product until you pay. Go into a Lee Valley Tools store and you'll see the model I recommend, where anything but the cheapest items are behind the counter until you purchase.

 

[just east of the creek]

Just remove the product until you pay. Go into a Lee Valley Tools store and you'll see the model I recommend, where anything but the cheapest items are behind the counter until you purchase.

Back to the LCBO model of my childhood. FIll out the slip of paper with the name and registration number from the long displays of product, hand over to the LCBO employee who retrieves the product from behind a counter, slips it into the brown paper bag, hands over the bag and you slink out into the night...(well you did if you were over height and underage)

 

[christiesplits]

Just remove the product until you pay. Go into a Lee Valley Tools store and you'll see the model I recommend, where anything but the cheapest items are behind the counter until you purchase.

Back to the LCBO model of my childhood. FIll out the slip of paper with the name and registration number from the long displays of product, hand over to the LCBO employee who retrieves the product from behind a counter, slips it into the brown paper bag, hands over the bag and you slink out into the night...(well you did if you were over height and underage)

It's highly unlikely they go back to the behind-the-counter model. LCBO's business model is oriented around a "retail experience," with displays, taste demos and prime shelf space purchased by liquor brands.

There's also the local economic factor. There's a reason why Ontario wines are the first displays you see when enter a store.

 

[gabe]

Yeah private business is very much the same as the LCBO; they don't let staff intervene for insurance reasons, and outsourcing to private security is expensive and high risk because those private security are often poorly trained (the lowest cost security are immigrants to Canada as of last week) and their interventions are prone to major fuck-ups that cost those stores more in losses than the theft they are theoretically there to prevent, much of which they still don't stop as many are so bad at their jobs they miss it.

EDIT: I should add the above is of course because private security workers are generally in very shitty working positions. They are usually variable hour jobs with little predictability of when or sometimes even where you will work week to week. They often are saddled with expenses from their employers (you have to pay for your company uniform) which take a significant portion of their wage, and as a result the people applying for these jobs are generally people who have no better options open to them. For them it's working as a security guard, working the overnight shift at the Amazon warehouse, or working at the chicken butchering plant.

These people aren't going to risk a personal injury tackling someone for stealing a bottle of vodka. They'll just report it to the cops the same as LCBO employes do.

Have you been to the cannabis shops? They don't have newly landed minimum wage immigrants working there. Some of the security guards look like UFC fighters. No one is going to mess with them. Also the cannabis is locked up anyway.

Just remove the product until you pay. Go into a Lee Valley Tools store and you'll see the model I recommend, where anything but the cheapest items are behind the counter until you purchase.

I have been to liquor stores in the states that do that. They got all the expensive liquor locked behind bullet resistant plexiglass. It's been like for as long as i can remember. i was in a convenience store in Chicago, and they kept all beer and booze in cages. You pay for it first and the worker will unlock the cage and get it for you.

It's not rocket science, but knowing the LCBO, they will hire a team of security experts on six figure salaries, to come up common sense solutions like..... plexiglass cases with locks!

 

[Northern Light]

Just remove the product until you pay. Go into a Lee Valley Tools store and you'll see the model I recommend, where anything but the cheapest items are behind the counter until you purchase.

Back to the LCBO model of my childhood. FIll out the slip of paper with the name and registration number from the long displays of product, hand over to the LCBO employee who retrieves the product from behind a counter, slips it into the brown paper bag, hands over the bag and you slink out into the night...(well you did if you were over height and underage)

100% would not work.

And won't be pursued anyway.

***

The retrieval model is very staff heavy, it drives up costs considerably. It can work for Lee Valley because they have relatively few locations, relatively high basket sizes ($ per order) and relatively low volumes.

The LCBO is a mass sales business model. The math doesn't support it.

Besides which the government has just indicated it will permit beer and wine at corner stores/supermarkets etc. That's not in line w/their business model either.

****

I have been to liquor stores in the states that do that. They got all the expensive liquor locked behind bullet resistant plexiglass. It's been like for as long as i can remember.

This isn't all that common, but I would point out the most pricey liquor products in an LCBO are already locked up. If your local store carries product worth over $150 its generally behind a lock and key, with some exceptions.

i was in a convenience store in Chicago, and they kept all beer and booze in cages. You pay for it first and the worker will unlock the cage and get it for you.

Very impractical and unappealing and a reflection of the enormous level of violence in the City of Chicago. A city smaller than Toronto with 617 homicides last year or about 9.5x the Toronto number.

It's not rocket science, but knowing the LCBO, they will hire a team of security experts on six figure salaries, to come up common sense solutions like..... plexiglass cases with locks!

Again, the LCBO already uses these. But you can't do it for the mass-sale product.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Okay, enough with the contrarianism and exclaiming why some idea would not, should not or could not work. You can't just whinge on without contributing. So, what's the fix to theft at the LCBO?

 

[just east of the creek]

100% would not work.

And won't be pursued anyway.

***

The retrieval model is very staff heavy, it drives up costs considerably. It can work for Lee Valley because they have relatively few locations, relatively high basket sizes ($ per order) and relatively low volumes.

The LCBO is a mass sales business model. The math doesn't support it.

Besides which the government has just indicated it will permit beer and wine at corner stores/supermarkets etc. That's not in line w/their business model either.

****



This isn't all that common, but I would point out the most pricey liquor products in an LCBO are already locked up. If your local store carries product worth over $150 its generally behind a lock and key, with some exceptions.



Very impractical and unappealing and a reflection of the enormous level of violence in the City of Chicago. A city smaller than Toronto with 617 homicides last year or about 9.5x the Toronto number.



Again, the LCBO already uses these. But you can't do it for the mass-sale product.

I need to work on my sense of humour, it’s obviously not working.