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LCBO / The Beer Store

Should the LCBO be deregulated?

  • Total voters
    169
  • Poll closed .
I'm definitely not a fan of The Beer Store. Magnet for drunks. But then again, I could see these people suddenly showing up at the LCBOs if the Beer Stores were closed (and you couldn't get beer elsewhere). It's almost as if it was planned this way, a class separation to keep the "undesirables" out of the LCBO stores.

P.S. I get a couple of bottles of wine a month from Ontario vineyards, via Canada Post. This bypasses the LCBO.
 
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The Niagara angle

^^^yes, true but for the most part I dont think there is much if any savings on price by going that route.

This is a very interesting thread and I must admit that my vote was 'no' at first even though I have several complaints about how the LCBO runs their stores. The more I have read here, the more I see that perhaps the only solution to these problems is to do away with the LCBO.

In Niagara Falls we are woefully under-served by locations - there are only 3 in the city, 2 of which are in the tourist area / downtown leaving easily 3/4 of the city having to drive significant distances to even get to a LCBO. On top of that these 3 locations are all very small and offer a very small selection of wine (which is the only thing I buy there) In particular my problem lies in the abysmal selection of Ontario VQA wines. Why shouldnt the LCBO be a tool for promoting our local wines? There are over 70 wineries in the Niagara Region alone, but I would be hard pressed to find more than 15-20 of them available at the LCBO. As others have suggested the LCBO seems to carry mainly popular brands that will move large quantities quickly and its extremely difficult for smaller wineries to have their product carried.

There is some light on the horizon though. Currently the LCBO is opening a new flagship location on Glendale Ave in St Catharines. As a consequence 2 current locations will close (thus not helping with the convenience factor). The new location will be one of the largest in the province and promises to stock the most extensive selection of Ontario wines anywhere. I look forward to checking it out when it opens...

As an alternative I used to go to the Wine Rack(et) a fair bit - that is until I figured out what that was all about. The Wine Rack is run by Vincor which is a conglomerate of 3 big name brands - Jackson Triggs, Sawmill Creek and Inniskillin. http://www.vincorinternational.com/ These 3 are the biggest offenders at watering down the Canadian wine industry by using cheap foreign grown grapes and juice to make their lower priced product lines. To the casual observer there may appear to be more than 3 brands available at the Wine Rack, but all the alternative brands are simply cheap generic wines made from the cheapest, lowest quality juice available by Vincor. So for close to a year now I have boycotted the Wine Rack as I find it a farce and a very poor representation of the Ontario wine industry. I would encourage others who would like to support Ontario wineries to buy only the VQA labelled wines (100% Ontario grown grapes) http://www.vqaontario.com/Home

As for beer my concerns would be similar. Why shouldnt Ontario small / micro / craft breweries be promoted where beer is sold? There is so much fantastic product out there that the average Joe doesnt even know about. I am sick of seeing big corporations dominate and using their money and power to block market access for their smaller competitors...
 
I'm not sure how much better it will be when grocery stores can carry beer/wine. I think smaller stores will only have the mass-market wines/beers, while you might have to go a Walmart/Superstore to get a large selection. It all comes down to sales/sqft.
 
New LCBO

Good and bad news my hood is getting a new LCBO at the High Park Plaza where the loblaws and zellers are, which means that there will probably be no new development for many many years in that gigantic unused open space.

http://www.roncesvallesvillage.ca/?p=505
 
Out of beer and can't buy any to enjoy the holiday Monday unless I want to make the 60 minute round trip to Quebec.. what is this, Soviet Russia?
 
I don't think that people should have to work on a holiday because some people can't be bothered to plan to buy in advance of one, single day when stores are closed. I'm reminded of working in a grocery store, when people would freak out and declare that they were going to starve since those too were closed on holidays.

Besides, bars and restaurants remain open.
 
^
I don't think anybody would want the LCBO, or some theoretical private sector equivalent, to "force" employees to work holidays, or force anyone to do anything.

The flip side is I don't see why governments have to "force" companies to not do certain things on certain days. I'm sure companies can find someone who doesn't value their Labour Day holiday, so why not let them work and make money?
 
CDL.TO said:
I don't think that people should have to work on a holiday because some people can't be bothered to plan to buy in advance of one, single day when stores are closed. I'm reminded of working in a grocery store, when people would freak out and declare that they were going to starve since those too were closed on holidays.

Besides, bars and restaurants remain open.
Click to expand...

But convenience stores/gas stations would still be opened on holidays... as well as grocery stores/private liquor stores in "tourist areas" (like Queens Quay, Yorkville, downtown Yonge St, Vaughan Mills,. Rideau Street in Ottawa etc)
 
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LCBO vs. WNY privately-owned liquor stores...

RS: Since NFS is underserved by the LCBO is there still people that shop at stores in WNY and bring it across the Border?
Has the new border rules been a problem for those who bring back liquor to Ontario? Are duty tariffs high enough today to deter this?
How have the new rules affected "Duty-Free" stores if you know?
LI MIKE
 
Observer Walt said:
Naw, just a day for the retail labourers not to labour! :D

Drop by your local pub, and ask them what they have that is new and exotic.
Click to expand...

That is sort of obnoxious. If you are going to tell someone they are going to loose a given freedom, you should at least have the courtesy to explain why that freedom was detrimental to society. If it doesn't negatively impact society, then it shouldn't be banned. You obviously think it is okay to drink on a holiday, and to work on a holiday (in fact, labor wise, bars are fare more inefficient than alcohol retailers), so why shouldn't someone be able to go to a corner store and buy a six pack?

This kind of "I'm smarter than you" social engineering is really stupid.
 
Redroom Studios said:
As an alternative I used to go to the Wine Rack(et) a fair bit - that is until I figured out what that was all about. The Wine Rack is run by Vincor which is a conglomerate of 3 big name brands - Jackson Triggs, Sawmill Creek and Inniskillin. http://www.vincorinternational.com/ These 3 are the biggest offenders at watering down the Canadian wine industry by using cheap foreign grown grapes and juice to make their lower priced product lines. To the casual observer there may appear to be more than 3 brands available at the Wine Rack, but all the alternative brands are simply cheap generic wines made from the cheapest, lowest quality juice available by Vincor. So for close to a year now I have boycotted the Wine Rack as I find it a farce and a very poor representation of the Ontario wine industry. I would encourage others who would like to support Ontario wineries to buy only the VQA labelled wines (100% Ontario grown grapes) http://www.vqaontario.com/Home
Click to expand...

Interesting... Vincor is actually owned by a large US conglomerate named Constellation Brands, the largest wine company in the world.

So the Beer Store is owned by an American, Belgian, and Japanese multinationals and the Wine Rack is owned by an American multinational... and those companies heavily promote their own brands in store.. and are part of a virtual duopoly with the government, which regulates minimum prices for alcohol that reduce the ability for companies like Brick, a microbrewery, or Ontario winery to offer lower prices... there has to be some kind of federal or international law against this type of thing

edit: there's also Vineyards Estates Wines/Aisle43, owned by Andrew Peller Ltd (Canadian company), which seems to mostly operate grocery store wine outlets.
 
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Redroom Studios said:
As an alternative I used to go to the Wine Rack(et) a fair bit - that is until I figured out what that was all about. The Wine Rack is run by Vincor which is a conglomerate of 3 big name brands - Jackson Triggs, Sawmill Creek and Inniskillin. http://www.vincorinternational.com/ These 3 are the biggest offenders at watering down the Canadian wine industry by using cheap foreign grown grapes and juice to make their lower priced product lines. To the casual observer there may appear to be more than 3 brands available at the Wine Rack, but all the alternative brands are simply cheap generic wines made from the cheapest, lowest quality juice available by Vincor. So for close to a year now I have boycotted the Wine Rack as I find it a farce and a very poor representation of the Ontario wine industry. I would encourage others who would like to support Ontario wineries to buy only the VQA labelled wines (100% Ontario grown grapes) http://www.vqaontario.com/Home
Click to expand...
Thanks for this information. Very good to know.
 
Treaties and VQA amongst other things

To answer someone's query: Yes there is law against this. The North American Free Trade Agreement essentially outlaws private monopoly or product preference retail in wine. (State monopolies are exempt, because even many U.S. states have those for liquor). However, pre-existing outlets were grandfathered. So the Wine Rack and its cousins are exempt. Other Ontario wineries are limited to opening stores only on their winery property.

As an alternative BC has created VQA stores, which can sell only BC VQA wine. There are 17 VQA wine stores in BC.

I believe these have replaced other exempt wine stores, and so are allowed under treaty (but I could be mistaken on this point)

They often carry 500 VQA wines per store! Take note LCBO!

****

As to the 'blending of wine' this practice is a no-no as well, as Ontario previously committed to phase it out; however they got cold feet when the grape crop was a disaster a few years ago; and the VQA wineries couldn't muster enough grape for existing VQA product, never mind the blended wines.

A campaign is under way by Environmental Defence, though their Greenbelt campaign to get Ontario to legislate an end to the blended wines in the next few years.

Of particular interest is that there is a vast grape glut in the Ontario market this year, and the farmers can't get the wineries to buy all the product!

http://www.greenbeltalliance.ca/

http://petition.environmentaldefence.ca/ontario_grapes/

Time to get this fixed!
 
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