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Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

micheal_can said:
Interesting, there are more flights between Regina and Calgary than Regina and Saskatoon.
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  1. Calgary is West Jet's hub, but neither Regina or Saskatoon are hubs for any major airline, so many of those flying to/from Calgary will be connecting. Not so much for either Regina or Saskatoon.
  2. Regina and Saskatoon are only about 260 km apart. That is well within the too short to fly range. Conversely, Regina and Calgary are about 750km apart. That is in the too long to drive range.
Given the combination of above two, I'm surprised there are any flights between Regina and Saskatoon.
 
ARG1 said:
Wait, you're surprised that there are more flights between Regina and the 3rd largest city in the country, compared to Regina and a city that's roughly the size of Vaughan and only 2.5 hours away by car? There's a chance that the car is faster than flying when you factor in getting from the airport to your destination, plus the time waiting at the airport.

Meanwhile, driving from Regina to Calgary would be like driving from Toronto to QC. Sure you could do it, but its easily outside the comfortable driving range for many people.
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I was thinking that since they are the largest cities in their provinces, you would be able to fly between them. Saskatchewan really does not have any non car transportation to serve the province,

roger1818 said:
  1. Calgary is West Jet's hub, but neither Regina or Saskatoon are hubs for any major airline, so many of those flying to/from Calgary will be connecting. Not so much for either Regina or Saskatoon.
  2. Regina and Saskatoon are only about 260 km apart. That is well within the too short to fly range. Conversely, Regina and Calgary are about 750km apart. That is in the too long to drive range.
Given the combination of above two, I'm surprised there are any flights between Regina and Saskatoon.
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Sudbury and North Bay has 1-2 flights and it is about 150km apart. Interestingly, the only major Northern ON cities you cannot fly between is Sudbury and Timmins.
 
lenaitch said:
Without some more details, or at least a better graphic, it might be that the proponents don't see Jasper as a viable regional rail destination. Both Jasper and Banff are inside national parks so are limited in growth potential. Jasper is over three hours away with little in the way of growth outside of the Greater Edmonton area. Banff is about half the distance (and about twice the population) with Canmore as a growth centre enroute.
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Exactly.

Most Albertans actually go to Canmore more than Banff as Banff is seen as a bit more touristy. Going to Calgary to Canmore is like going from Toronto to Barrie while going from Edmonton to Jasper is more like going from Toronto to Sudbury. For Calgarians, Canmore {and even Banff} which is just 20 km further is an easy day trip while Jasper most certainly isn't. This also means that going to Jasper is much more expensive due to probably having to rent a room for the night. The traffic between Cal/Banff is exponentially heavier than Ed/Jasper. Many people in Canmore are Calgary commuters. Added to this is that Calgary is a much more important airport than Edmonton's with far more international direct flights and domestic ones for that matter.

A Banff/Canmore/Calgary train would be very well patronized while Jasper/Edmonton could not be financially viable. Also, a Banff train would run right thru Cochrane NW of Calgary which is a very fast growing suburban city of 40,000 with long commute times due to the topography so it could also be used as a viable commuter train.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Exactly.

Most Albertans actually go to Canmore more than Banff as Banff is seen as a bit more touristy. Going to Calgary to Canmore is like going from Toronto to Barrie while going from Edmonton to Jasper is more like going from Toronto to Sudbury. For Calgarians, Canmore {and even Banff} which is just 20 km further is an easy day trip while Jasper most certainly isn't. This also means that going to Jasper is much more expensive due to probably having to rent a room for the night. The traffic between Cal/Banff is exponentially heavier than Ed/Jasper. Many people in Canmore are Calgary commuters. Added to this is that Calgary is a much more important airport than Edmonton's with far more international direct flights and domestic ones for that matter.

A Banff/Canmore/Calgary train would be very well patronized while Jasper/Edmonton could not be financially viable. Also, a Banff train would run right thru Cochrane NW of Calgary which is a very fast growing suburban city of 40,000 with long commute times due to the topography so it could also be used as a viable commuter train.
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Distance wise, I agree. However,they have been arguing it for tourism, and it seemed like they left out a major tourist draw. A Banff - Calgary- Edmonton route does make sense. The fact they are pushing towards Grande Prairie and ignoring Lethbridge is kinda confusing.
 
micheal_can said:
Sudbury and North Bay has 1-2 flights and it is about 150km apart. Interestingly, the only major Northern ON cities you cannot fly between is Sudbury and Timmins.
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They are only last leg of 3 leg flights (all with the same flight number) that travel YQT-YAM-YSB-YYB. Most people are likely flying from either Thundery Bay or Sault Ste. Marie. I suspect none of those city pairs have enough demand to warrant a non stop flight of their own, but combining them all on one flight fills more seats.

Conversely, YQR and YXE (serving much larger cities) probably both have direct flights to most of the same destinations, so linking the two doesn't add much value in most cases (the SunWing flight @Urban Sky mentioned being the exception).
 
roger1818 said:
They are only last leg of 3 leg flights (all with the same flight number) that travel YQT-YAM-YSB-YYB. Most people are likely flying from either Thundery Bay or Sault Ste. Marie. I suspect none of those city pairs have enough demand to warrant a non stop flight of their own, but combining them all on one flight fills more seats.

Conversely, YQR and YXE (serving much larger cities) probably both have direct flights to most of the same destinations, so linking the two doesn't add much value in most cases (the SunWing flight @Urban Sky mentioned being the exception).
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It still surprises me just how much that province lacks in transportation besides the all mighty car. I am not sure if it is a case of lack of demand, or an acceptance to what exists. It's along the line of is it a feature or a bug. The more I look into it, the more I think it is a feature. Seriously, The Maritimes have more transportation options.
 
roger1818 said:
They are only last leg of 3 leg flights (all with the same flight number) that travel YQT-YAM-YSB-YYB. Most people are likely flying from either Thundery Bay or Sault Ste. Marie. I suspect none of those city pairs have enough demand to warrant a non stop flight of their own, but combining them all on one flight fills more seats.

Conversely, YQR and YXE (serving much larger cities) probably both have direct flights to most of the same destinations, so linking the two doesn't add much value in most cases (the SunWing flight @Urban Sky mentioned being the exception).
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Well, it's Bearskin, so not a lot of seats to fill.

Given the time to show up before a flight - even domestic, and the location of the Sudbury airport in Falconbridge, I think I could drive from North Bay faster.
 
lenaitch said:
Well, it's Bearskin, so not a lot of seats to fill.

Given the time to show up before a flight - even domestic, and the location of the Sudbury airport in Falconbridge, I think I could drive from North Bay faster.
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They operate Fairchild Swearingen Metroliners which seat 19. The flight is short. Even a Sudbury - Toronto flight is under an hour. I am guessing under a half hour between Sudbury and North Bay. Driving takes just over a hour. So,flying between the 2 may not be that much faster when you think about the time at the airport, and also where you may be going. How close these cities are, makes me hopeful that after the Northlander is reinstated, that this becomes a future study area for rail. Not holding my breath for it, but it would be nice to have something to indicate what is needed before it becomes viable, or, are we at that point already where a single daily train would be viable.
 
micheal_can said:
They operate Fairchild Swearingen Metroliners which seat 19. The flight is short. Even a Sudbury - Toronto flight is under an hour. I am guessing under a half hour between Sudbury and North Bay. Driving takes just over a hour. So,flying between the 2 may not be that much faster when you think about the time at the airport, and also where you may be going. How close these cities are, makes me hopeful that after the Northlander is reinstated, that this becomes a future study area for rail. Not holding my breath for it, but it would be nice to have something to indicate what is needed before it becomes viable, or, are we at that point already where a single daily train would be viable.
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And now a word form our sponsor . . .

I wonder if there is a way to track how many times you have said the same thing.
 
micheal_can said:
It still surprises me just how much that province lacks in transportation besides the all mighty car. I am not sure if it is a case of lack of demand, or an acceptance to what exists. It's along the line of is it a feature or a bug. The more I look into it, the more I think it is a feature. Seriously, The Maritimes have more transportation options.
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Blame that on VIA & Ottawa, not Alberta.
 
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