Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[micheal_can]

Michael: Do you ever think you are talking to yourself?

It is how I get the best advice and the smartest answers.

Not many people want to have a serious conversation about meaningful changes. For instance, just moving the HEP cars to this route was something I had said before and everyone scoffed at me. If it really does happen, my 'fantasies' are more based in reality than they want to admit.

 

[roger1818]

It is how I get the best advice and the smartest answers.

Not many people want to have a serious conversation about meaningful changes. For instance, just moving the HEP cars to this route was something I had said before and everyone scoffed at me. If it really does happen, my 'fantasies' are more based in reality than they want to admit.

I don’t think anyone was scarfing at the idea of replacing the RDCs with HEP equipment, it was the idea of using HEPs to provide additional service on new and existing routes (the Gaspé train doesn’t count, as it’s an existing route that has been suspended, so when it does come back, it won’t really be new).

Overall, I don’t think this is surprising, as I suspect the RDCs are becoming expensive to operate, and need to be either refurbished or replaced. Standardizing on the same type of equipment as used elsewhere is a good idea.

It is just replacing one jalopy with another though, and it’s only buying time until a decision is made, whether to replace the long distance fleet or not.

 

[crs1026]

Overall, I don’t think this is surprising, as I suspect the RDCs are becoming expensive to operate, and need to be either refurbished or replaced. Standardizing on the same type of equipment as used elsewhere is a good idea.

It is just replacing one jalopy with another though, and it’s only buying time until a decision is made, whether to replace the long distance fleet or not.

Exactly.

I haven't gone looking for the dates that the RDC's were last life-extended, but it strikes me that it wasn't that long ago. So if VIA now considers them worn out, or too expensive for their role, that's surprising and concerning.... even more so when one notes that the original intent of their last overhaul was to place them in Corridor service (that expansion plan was never approved, sadly)

How anyone could think that replacing the aging RDC's with even older coaches of a design that is no longer in service anywhere else except museum railroads, is a step forward.......that's pretty much delusional.

The biggest inference I take from this rumour is that Ottawa has absolutely no intention to upgrade the remote services any time soon, and (completely opposite to what a certain poster is hoping) this development, if true, may be another nail in the coffin of remote services, and certainly not a hint of expansion of same.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

The biggest inference I take from this rumour is that Ottawa has absolutely no intention to upgrade the remote services any time soon, and (completely opposite to what a certain poster is hoping) this development, if true, may be another nail in the coffin of remote services, and certainly not a hint of expansion of same.

- Paul

What I get is that they are going to work with what they have to keep what LDS we have till a new contract can be tendered. TBH, that is fine by me, If that is the case,what will happen to the rest that have some life in them?My hop is at the very least,they are stored in a yard and maintained to keep them usable if needed.

 

[micheal_can]

I don’t think anyone was scarfing at the idea of replacing the RDCs with HEP equipment, it was the idea of using HEPs to provide additional service on new and existing routes (the Gaspé train doesn’t count, as it’s an existing route that has been suspended, so when it does come back, it won’t really be new).

Overall, I don’t think this is surprising, as I suspect the RDCs are becoming expensive to operate, and need to be either refurbished or replaced. Standardizing on the same type of equipment as used elsewhere is a good idea.

It is just replacing one jalopy with another though, and it’s only buying time until a decision is made, whether to replace the long distance fleet or not.

We do not know how the service will operate. Elsewhere it came up about how they would be maintained, so I speculated a bit.

 

[roger1818]

Exactly.

I haven't gone looking for the dates that the RDC's were last life-extended, but it strikes me that it wasn't that long ago. So if VIA now considers them worn out, or too expensive for their role, that's surprising and concerning.... even more so when one notes that the original intent of their last overhaul was to place them in Corridor service (that expansion plan was never approved, sadly)

This Backgrounder from 2010 said that all 6 of VIA’s RDCs were to have been refurbished by the end of 2011. That’s 12 years ago, so the ones in use are likely due to be refurbished again soon, and the ones in storage at MMC likely need work to un-mothball them.

How anyone could think that replacing the aging RDC's with even older coaches of a design that is no longer in service anywhere else except museum railroads, is a step forward.......that's pretty much delusional.

A step sideways maybe, to dodge a bullet.

The biggest inference I take from this rumour is that Ottawa has absolutely no intention to upgrade the remote services any time soon, and (completely opposite to what a certain poster is hoping) this development, if true, may be another nail in the coffin of remote services, and certainly not a hint of expansion of same.

Not sure I would jump to that conclusion yet. Even if the budget to replace the LD fleet was made available in the next budget, it would likely take well over a decade for the full order to be fulfilled. I’m not holding my breath on that happening though.

 

[micheal_can]

Over on the Via forum, someone had asked about some sort of international crossing near Kingston. It made me think of the other former crossings. I know of the one from Winnipeg - St Paul called the Winnipegger and the Halifax - Boston called the Gull. There was also the Montrealer from Montreal - Washington. Also there were a few through SWO including the one that went through St Thomas and not through London or Toronto. Was there anything from Calgary or Regina? What about from SSM?

 

[crs1026]

Over on the Via forum, someone had asked about some sort of international crossing near Kingston. It made me think of the other former crossings. I know of the one from Winnipeg - St Paul called the Winnipegger and the Halifax - Boston called the Gull. There was also the Montrealer from Montreal - Washington. Also there were a few through SWO including the one that went through St Thomas and not through London or Toronto. Was there anything from Calgary or Regina? What about from SSM?

There was through service advertised between Minneapolis and Toronto/Montreal via Sault Ste Marie, but from a 1947 timetable it involved a change of trains in SSM Mi. The CP trains did cross the border to the Soo Line station on the US side.

The Soo-Dominion which ran St-Paul to Moose Jaw and onto the CP main line had through coach and sleeper cars St-Paul to Vancouver. If you visit Moose Jaw, be sure to soak up the Al Capone lore, this railroad line was said to be how he left Chicago whenever things got hot.

The Great Northern connected with CP in Coutts AB/Sweet Grass MT, but local service only, change trains in Lethbridge to Calgary and Edmonton.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

There was through service advertised between Minneapolis and Toronto/Montreal via Sault Ste Marie, but from a 1947 timetable it involved a change of trains in SSM Mi. The CP trains did cross the border to the Soo Line station on the US side.

The Soo-Dominion which ran St-Paul to Moose Jaw and onto the CP main line had through coach and sleeper cars St-Paul to Vancouver. If you visit Moose Jaw, be sure to soak up the Al Capone lore, this railroad line was said to be how he left Chicago whenever things got hot.

The Great Northern connected with CP in Coutts AB/Sweet Grass MT, but local service only, change trains in Lethbridge to Calgary and Edmonton.

- Paul

Would bringing any of them, including the ones I had listed be realistically possible, and worth it? I am thinking the Winnipeg one, the one to Calgary and the one to Halifax.

 

[crs1026]

Would bringing any of them, including the ones I had listed be realistically possible, and worth it? I am thinking the Winnipeg one, the one to Calgary and the one to Halifax.

Not likely.

1) The tracks are not necessarily there. Or in shape to be used for passenger.
2) Absolutely no interest from Amtrak, who have laid out a set of business priorities and have enough of a battle getting those going
3) The cost of building and maintaining today's standard of customs facilities - at crossings that aren't a priority for anyone
4) No customers -
5) The schedules that worked back then would not be marketable today

Really, you're back in fantasy land.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

Not likely.

1) The tracks are not necessarily there. Or in shape to be used for passenger.
2) Absolutely no interest from Amtrak, who have laid out a set of business priorities and have enough of a battle getting those going
3) The cost of building and maintaining today's standard of customs facilities - at crossings that aren't a priority for anyone
4) No customers -
5) The schedules that worked back then would not be marketable today

Really, you're back in fantasy land.

- Paul

Fair point.

 

[DSC]

Not likely.

1) The tracks are not necessarily there. Or in shape to be used for passenger.
2) Absolutely no interest from Amtrak, who have laid out a set of business priorities and have enough of a battle getting those going
3) The cost of building and maintaining today's standard of customs facilities - at crossings that aren't a priority for anyone
4) No customers -
5) The schedules that worked back then would not be marketable today

Really, you're back in fantasy land.

- Paul

Yes, fantasy land (again). Apart from problems like no tracks remaining, the procedures at the US/Canada border have changed completely in the last 30 years - then you did not need a passport and I crossed with nothing but my University ID card. It's fun to reminisce but let's deal with reality.

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, fantasy land (again). Apart from problems like no tracks remaining, the procedures at the US/Canada border have changed completely in the last 30 years - then you did not need a passport and I crossed with nothing but my University ID card. It's fun to reminisce but let's deal with reality.

of the 3 I mentioned; the Gull, Winnipeger and the one to Calgary/Moose Jaw, which one has no tracks?

 

[roger1818]

Yes, fantasy land (again). Apart from problems like no tracks remaining, the procedures at the US/Canada border have changed completely in the last 30 years - then you did not need a passport and I crossed with nothing but my University ID card. It's fun to reminisce but let's deal with reality.

Off topic, but I remember as a teenager in the early 80s riding my bike across the boarder with a friend. I wouldn't have had any ID other than maybe my high school student card, which back then, only had my first initial and last name hand written on my picture. Living in a boarder town in BC, I didn't think anything of it at the time, but looking back, it was insane. Different times for sure.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

but looking back, it was insane.

Wholly off topic, but I don’t buy it. The alleged necessity of anything like strict border controls between Canada and the US has never felt compelling to me, or even particularly persuasive as anything but an opportunity to flex its sovereignty.