LA Times: VHS era is winding down

[Maggie]

chip and dip

I highly doubt this. Blu-ray's offer very little improvement over DVD's compared to what DVD's offered over VHS when viewed on a high-def (720p, 1080i, 1080p) set.

DVD was the true revolution in home theatre and blu-ray is merely an upgrade to that. Going from 480i to 480p was drastically better than going from 480p to 1080p (unless you have a 70 inch + set and sit close enough to appreciate it).

You should get your eyes checked out. 1080p is 10 times better than standard definition. Anyways if your happy with dvd so be it.

I think the next generation of high definition will be all on chips and I mean thumb drives (usb keys). This is what THX is betting on and I have done some research into this because I waited over a year for a thx certified blue ray player to no avail.

 

[wonderboy416]

You should get your eyes checked out. 1080p is 10 times better than standard definition. Anyways if your happy with dvd so be it.

Umm...

The higher the resolution, the more diminished the return will be.
Watching 480p vs HD sourced material on a native HD display (720p/1080p) will reveal a slightly better HD picture (pending your tv is over 32" and you're sitting 4-5 feet away). Now try the same thing with 480i vs 480p and you will be blown away by the difference.

Like I said 480p (DVD) was the real revolution, blu-ray is a slight upgrade to this. It just so happens that tv broadcasters never jumped on the 480p bandwagon and waited for HD... if you had widescreen sports broadcast to your tv in 480p you wouldn't appreciate the jump to HD nearly as much.

My eyes are just fine thank you.
But if you're happy buying the $100 monster HDMI cables from Future Shop to go with your new 1080p tv (which is soooo much better than the 720p model you're replacing it with.. after all the guy at Future Shop wouldn't lie to you right?) and blu-ray player then go ahead... you just spent a whole lot of money for something that is slightly better than watching dvd's on a 720p set (of similar quality) over your trusty old component cables. That's my point...

 

[Whoaccio]

I'm not very confident in Blu-Ray's future. It is a stop gap solution until we work out some of the implementation bugs with Netflix-esque services.

As for image quality, no doubt Blu Ray is sharp, but it definitely does seem like a case of diminishing returns. Whatever minute improvement there is doesn't really justify, in my mind, replacing my DVD collection with BR. I wont say that technology is 'good enough' (last time I said that the IPod spanked CD players and DVD really trounced VHS) but I don't think the current sales pitch is convincing enough.

And as an aside, 'Blu Ray' is an awful name. I liked the sound of renting a dvd, the acronym has good rhythm. Blu Ray just sounds clunky and ridiculous. I know where the name comes from, but that doesn't justify it. BRD (Blu Ray Disc) sounds somewhat better.

 

[khris]

if the items are important to you, you should convert them to digital format. magnetic tape seriously degrades with time. in england, there is actually some type of mold or fungus that eats tape.

and when you store on a digital media, you should choose your manufacturer wisely. some disks could become unreadable in a few years time. you should also copy burned disks every few years just in case the original becomes unreadable with time.

Funny you mention that mold, I recently read about that!

It's actually a tour documentary of Nine Inch Nails. I'm not sure if one of thoe stores that does it, would actually do it for me. Anyone know if they would?

 

[digi]

Going from 480i to 480p was drastically better than going from 480p to 1080p

...only if you're blind.

 

[wonderboy416]

Going from 480i to 480p was drastically better than going from 480p to 1080p
...only if you're blind.

You keep telling yourself that. You do realize 1080p came out just after the masses had purchased 720p (and older 1080i CRT sets) so the stores would have something new and expensive to sell you again right? Give it 2-3 years before tv's with increased resolution come out and the same BS game gets played all over again.

Watch a quality transfer 480p dvd on a high-def set versus the native HD blu-ray disc and you won't get near the jump in visual fidelity that you would see going from 480i to 480p... 10x better or 100000x better won't make much difference at all to most. The only reason resolution plays such a huge role in how good your computer monitor looks is because you're sitting 2 feet away from it, people typically sit 10-18 feet from their tv's making it hard to distinguish anything over 480p even to those with perfect vision (such as myself).

To relate this back to the OT (well kind of), the average person is NOT impressed with blu-ray and does NOT want to upgrade their equipment or movies just to watch something that is barely any better than DVD. Adoption is poor (even with Sony bleeding itself to death at the expense of including blu-ray capability in the PS3). Look at where DVD was at this point in its life versus blu-ray, it's not even close.

I'm not alone in thinking blu-ray will always be in the backseat until it fizzles out.

It's the wrong technology (not much of an upgrade over DVD) at the wrong time (digital formats proving superior convenience).

It just sucks that Sony was taking a $400-500 loss per console (what on earth were they thinking) to push blu-ray as the next big format when it was pretty much doomed from the start. That extra money could have given them a game system that seriously outperformed the 360 or at least been price competitive allowing them to continue their dominance. Now the 360 more than holds its own graphically (despite being a year older and a whole lot cheaper) and is destroying the PS3 everywhere but Japan...

Sony lost their gaming empire and never seized the home movie market with blu-ray like they hoped. Boohoo

 

[MetroMan]

I've skipped over BluRay and went with digital online distribution. I've been really happy with my AppleTV (an iPod for your TV) and all the content available on the iTunes store.

I agree with those saying that BluRay will be the last physical media to go mainstream but it will never attain the popularity of DVD. It's all digital online distribution from here.

 

[digi]

You do realize 1080p came out just after the masses had purchased 720p (and older 1080i CRT sets) so the stores would have something new and expensive to sell you again right? Give it 2-3 years before tv's with increased resolution come out and the same BS game gets played all over again.

Do you realise that these standards were ratified long before anyone even made a 480p display? They don't just keep "inventing" things to piss you off. Get a clue.

You keep telling yourself that 480i is the best, no one else agrees.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

The higher the resolution, the more diminished the return will be.

Wha?

Watching 480p vs HD sourced material on a native HD display (720p/1080p) will reveal a slightly better HD picture (pending your tv is over 32" and you're sitting 4-5 feet away). Now try the same thing with 480i vs 480p and you will be blown away by the difference.

VHS had 240 lines of resolution, DVD has 480 lines (interlaced) and Blu-ray offers 1080 lines (progressive). "Progressive" DVD players convert interlaced DVD data to progressive signals which can yield more fluid playback on a good TV panel, but it's digital enhancement, plain and simple. Not that that's a bad thing if it's pleasing to your eye. Note: by "HD sourced material" I presume you refer to 1080p Blu-ray material, not the (often) highly compressed 720p or 1080i cable or satellite signals.

Like I said 480p (DVD) was the real revolution, blu-ray is a slight upgrade to this. It just so happens that tv broadcasters never jumped on the 480p bandwagon and waited for HD... if you had widescreen sports broadcast to your tv in 480p you wouldn't appreciate the jump to HD nearly as much.

I agree, DVD's were revolutionary in terms of improved picture quality, multi-channel Dolby/DTS sound, ease of use and interactive features.
DVD's offer 480 lines of of native interlaced resolution (480 "viewable" lines), Blu-ray offers 1080 lines of true progressive resolution. That's 3 times the amount of data and with far less compression. Is it three times better? That is in the eyes of the beholder. My opinion is it's easily twice as better looking as the best looking anamorphic DVD. Like DVD, Blu-ray titles greatly depend on the quality of the transfer & amount of compression applied, the Blu-ray player being used, the HD panel and just as importantly how well calibrated the panel is. Blu-ray also improves on a host of problems associated with DVD's and also offers interactive online features.

My eyes are just fine thank you.
But if you're happy buying the $100 monster HDMI cables from Future Shop to go with your new 1080p tv (which is soooo much better than the 720p model you're replacing it with.. after all the guy at Future Shop wouldn't lie to you right?)

There's no need to throw away that kind of money. Google monoprice and check out their cables. They're just as good.

and blu-ray player then go ahead... you just spent a whole lot of money for something that is slightly better than watching dvd's on a 720p set (of similar quality) over your trusty old component cables. That's my point...

It can be debated for pages the merits of a 1080p over a 720p panel however if one is considering purchasing a 50" panel or larger, 1080p is arguably the best choice.
Stating that Blu-ray is "slightly better" than DVD is just not true. Blu-ray is capable of jaw-dropping images, nothing that DVD can even begin to approach on larger sized panels. Anyone serious about home theatre will recognize that the difference between DVD and a Blu-ray is as dramatic as VHS was compared to DVD.
I have given many friends demos by syncing up a DVD on my $1200 Sony progressive DVD player (component cables) to the same Blu-ray film (i.e. Kill Bill/Baraka/Blade Runner/Elizabeth etc.) on my PS3 sitting approximately 7' from the screen and then flipping back and forth to compare. This yields extremely enthusiastic responses. Those who were previously unconvinced about the merits of Blu-ray are converts after they see how great it's capablilties are. I have a very good panel (far from "top of the line") a 1080p Panasonic 50" plasma which I calibrated using the "Digital Video Essentials High Definition" Blu-ray disc. THX optimizers, which are on some Blu-ray discs, work well too.

 

[syn]

Regular DVDs will still be around for a while. A lot of them upconvert pretty impressively and they're very cheap.

I'm not sure Blu-Ray will ever be as popular as Kulger suggests, but I don't see it just failing either. The prices are dropping and there are a lot of corporations that have invested a lot into the technology; I doubt they'll let it just slip away.

I do agree there's a good chance it will be the last major physical media form of selling and distributing movies, etc.

As for quality, there are certainly some impressive transfers on standard DVDs that upconvert really well on 1080p TVs...but Blu Ray quality is just on a whole other level.

 

[afransen]

Difference is that VHS was bad while DVD is at worst 'good'. Most people won't succumb to blu-ray until it's dirt cheap.

 

[Maggie]

Looking for another

a 1080p Panasonic 50" plasma which I calibrated using the "Digital Video Essentials High Definition" Blu-ray disc. THX optimizers, which are on some Blu-ray discs, work well too.

Do you own a Panasonic plasma ? Are you happy with it ? I have a sharp aquos 46 and am looking for another hd tv . I'm also wanting to see the new back lit led Aquos, a bit pricey but most likely worth it. I know you have good tech sense because I have been using dv essential for years on barcos, daktronics and christie systems myself transfered to different mediums suchs as betacam sp and dx and different Dsr systems.

Just to let some members know that yes the FCC in the states have mandated broadcasters to transmit in hd 1080i this year. However the horizontal resolution which is typically 1920i will be cut by some broadcasters to 1440i. Why there doing this I'm guessing for compression reasons or cost or both. Don't ask me about the CRTC mandates there a bigger joke than the omb. The best website if your interested in consumer electronics is http://www.avsforum.com/

 

[digi]

Just to let some members know that yes the FCC in the states have mandated broadcasters to transmit in hd 1080i this year.

No they haven't. The mandate states that US broadcasters must transmit DTV instead of NTSC. DTV can be SD or HD with many different resolutions and aspect ratios supported.

 

[Admiral Beez]

All this talk of television makes me chuckle, as I'm thinking about cancelling my cable all together. I don't have time to follow serial shows (where you need to watch each show to follow the storyline), and good single episode/sit-com shows (such as Seinfield, where each show introduced a storyline and closed it) are few if any. I can't stand the abundance of medical dramas and reality shows. So I end up watching Discovery Channel or History most of the time, unless I catch Top Gear on BBC Canada. I used to like the CSI shows, but they've become really silly in their plot lines. There are too many Law and Orders to follow, and again, you need to watch them all or you're lost (if watch the earlier L&Os from the early 1990s it wasn't always so).

If it wasn't for Treehouse, I'd have cancelled it already. That said, 90% of my kids TV watching now is Disney-type DVDs.

There's just nothing on anymore. I'll watch Flashpoint on Friday night, maybe that'll be a good one.

 

[Towered]

Best Buy still sells VHS tapes, and just the other day I was slightly stunned to see a huge pyramid of them sitting at a checkout at Loblaws.