L Tower Condos (Cityzen, Castlepoint Realty, Fernbrook Homes) - Real Estate -

Hello all,
This is the email my lawyer sent me RE: Compensation for Delay:

In general terms the builder can extend the occupancy date as many times as they want from the “First Tentative Occupancy Date” (30 November 2010) so long as they don’t extend it beyond the “Outside Occupancy Date” (“OOD”) which would be stated in the Tarion Addendum attached to the Agreement of Purchase and Sale (“APS”). Unfortunately we don’t have a copy of that addendum. As you entered the APS in June 2007, it is likely the OOD has now passed or is close, which is perhaps why there is a buzz about compensation.

If the suite is not complete by the OOD you can terminate your agreement on giving 30 days notice to the builder. You are not obliged to terminate the Agreement it is just one of the options available to you. You can also extend the OOD by mutual agreement if you would prefer and you may already have agreed that with the builder.

Where the builder is in breach of providing occupancy when they should, compensation is payable up to a maximum of $5,000.00 for living expenses and other direct costs. The normal process for obtaining compensation is to apply directly to the builder AFTER, and no later than 180 days after, you have completed occupancy. If they do not pay you would then apply to Tarion. Proof of expenses such as receipts/invoices, will substantiate any compensation claim you make.

Whether the builder will approach purchasers before occupancy to discuss compensation is unknown. Builder’s don’t tend to voluntarily offer money back to purchasers so it may be they have indicated they are open to compensation claims as they are aware of the delays at this development. That being said, it is always possible the builder will attempt to pre-empt any compensation claims beforehand to agree the amounts now.

Without knowing the exact OOD it is difficult to advise 100% that you will be eligible for compensation but given the time lines involved from when you entered in to the agreement, it is likely you would be eligible for some compensation. Please note ccompensation is NOT payable for delays due to matters outside the builder’s control such as strikes or floods.

If you make a claim to your builder, be sure to provide all receipts and other supporting documents for direct costs incurred as a result of the delay. Keep copies of your receipts and other documents as these will be needed if you make a claim to Tarion.
 
Is it allowed for realtors to advertise it?
I have a unit in the building. The occupancy day is next week but I haven't had a PDI yet. I want to rent it out. My lawyer contacted the builder for the permission but he thinks I cannot use a realtor to advertise it. But my realtor wants me to sign an Exclusive Listing agreement (standard from OREA but it's not MLS). I don't want to get in trouble with the builder because I'm planning to use a realtor for renting it out.

Also, the builder advertises its own rental management company. I talked to them, and they say all tenants have to be approved by them anyway - does anyone deal with them?

The Realtors advertising now are using sites like kijiji. They don't use MLS. The only Realtor that can use MLS right now is the builder's Realtor.

If the builder's Realtor is charging the same price as everybody else (I don't know if they are - standard price being 1 month's rent), I don't see why you won't use them. You won't have to ask the builder for permission to rent.
 
Hello all,
This is the email my lawyer sent me RE: Compensation for Delay:

In general terms the builder can extend the occupancy date as many times as they want from the “First Tentative Occupancy Date†(30 November 2010) so long as they don’t extend it beyond the “Outside Occupancy Date†(“OODâ€) which would be stated in the Tarion Addendum attached to the Agreement of Purchase and Sale (“APSâ€). Unfortunately we don’t have a copy of that addendum. As you entered the APS in June 2007, it is likely the OOD has now passed or is close, which is perhaps why there is a buzz about compensation.

If the suite is not complete by the OOD you can terminate your agreement on giving 30 days notice to the builder. You are not obliged to terminate the Agreement it is just one of the options available to you. You can also extend the OOD by mutual agreement if you would prefer and you may already have agreed that with the builder.

Where the builder is in breach of providing occupancy when they should, compensation is payable up to a maximum of $5,000.00 for living expenses and other direct costs. The normal process for obtaining compensation is to apply directly to the builder AFTER, and no later than 180 days after, you have completed occupancy. If they do not pay you would then apply to Tarion. Proof of expenses such as receipts/invoices, will substantiate any compensation claim you make.

Whether the builder will approach purchasers before occupancy to discuss compensation is unknown. Builder’s don’t tend to voluntarily offer money back to purchasers so it may be they have indicated they are open to compensation claims as they are aware of the delays at this development. That being said, it is always possible the builder will attempt to pre-empt any compensation claims beforehand to agree the amounts now.

Without knowing the exact OOD it is difficult to advise 100% that you will be eligible for compensation but given the time lines involved from when you entered in to the agreement, it is likely you would be eligible for some compensation. Please note ccompensation is NOT payable for delays due to matters outside the builder’s control such as strikes or floods.

If you make a claim to your builder, be sure to provide all receipts and other supporting documents for direct costs incurred as a result of the delay. Keep copies of your receipts and other documents as these will be needed if you make a claim to Tarion.


Thank you for this Mark. I had heard from my lawyer that the maximum has gone up to $7500 now, but perhaps because our agreements are so old they would try to grandfather the $5000. I was also under the impression that they had to pay a certain amount of money per day past the deadline, up to the maximum of $5000/7500. I did not hear that it was to reimburse for specific expenses, where you had to save receipts. I don't think that should be necessary. They should just have to pay us a daily rate regardless of what was spent or not spent.

Secondly, my closing was supposed to happen next week, and I had a vacation booked. I asked if I could actually postpone the closing by just a couple of days, but apparently I would have had to pay a penalty. This was infuriating given they have delayed this project for nearly 8 years, and they can't accommodate a push of a couple of days for a closing date they unilaterally impose. So I cancelled my trip and have been spending time arranging my documents in preparation for the close. I have now just been informed via "urgent" letter that they now are delaying my closing AGAIN, 2 two business days from my scheduled final closing date, and after I was told I was not allowed to push it back myself and I had to change my plans to accommodate their date. I am beyond livid at this point, and I definitely feel they need to compensate me. I have been telling many of my friends and contacts to never buy something from Cityzen or Fernbrook as they do not care at all about their buyers, and in fact make the purchase and closing of a property from them an excruciating experience.
 
That is absolutely infuriating.

I wouldn't place too much blame on the shoulders of any particular developer - they ALL do this. It won't change until forced to through government intervention.
 
Thx for the commiseration.

I do get that all developers engage in this kind of practice, but this particular experience seems beyond the norm, especially the incredibly lengthy delay. I have bought pre-construction before from Great Gulf and my experience then was perfect. So in comparison, Cityzen/Fernbrook seem like huge schmucks to me.
 
Thank you for this Mark. I had heard from my lawyer that the maximum has gone up to $7500 now, but perhaps because our agreements are so old they would try to grandfather the $5000. I was also under the impression that they had to pay a certain amount of money per day past the deadline, up to the maximum of $5000/7500. I did not hear that it was to reimburse for specific expenses, where you had to save receipts. I don't think that should be necessary. They should just have to pay us a daily rate regardless of what was spent or not spent.

Secondly, my closing was supposed to happen next week, and I had a vacation booked. I asked if I could actually postpone the closing by just a couple of days, but apparently I would have had to pay a penalty. This was infuriating given they have delayed this project for nearly 8 years, and they can't accommodate a push of a couple of days for a closing date they unilaterally impose. So I cancelled my trip and have been spending time arranging my documents in preparation for the close. I have now just been informed via "urgent" letter that they now are delaying my closing AGAIN, 2 two business days from my scheduled final closing date, and after I was told I was not allowed to push it back myself and I had to change my plans to accommodate their date. I am beyond livid at this point, and I definitely feel they need to compensate me. I have been telling many of my friends and contacts to never buy something from Cityzen or Fernbrook as they do not care at all about their buyers, and in fact make the purchase and closing of a property from them an excruciating experience.

No way Riley, this is getting ridiculous....They cannot delay any further can they? My lawyer said that they need to give you a minimum of 30 days notice....I have to admit that Cityzen and Fernbrook have managed this thing so badly that I will NEVER buy anything from them in the future....ever again! I think alot of it has to do with running this like a family business with no accountability from anyone and in the end we, the customers are left hanging there....I haven't received any letter yet but my occupancy is supposed to be next week! they have messed up all my timings as well on so many things that it would take pages to describe what they have done....I know that Tarion only offers limited protection but we probably need to do something here....maybe a class action lawsuit.....no doubt so many people can join, we just need a good lawyer to take this through....they can't keep getting away with it....no one can tell me that it is legal for them to make you sign dodgy paperwork to get away with stuff....putting the Tarion compensation aside, they are not meeting the 30 day notice of change of occupancy....like I said, never again from these developers, NEVER AGAIN!
 
Thank you for this Mark. I had heard from my lawyer that the maximum has gone up to $7500 now, but perhaps because our agreements are so old they would try to grandfather the $5000. I was also under the impression that they had to pay a certain amount of money per day past the deadline, up to the maximum of $5000/7500. I did not hear that it was to reimburse for specific expenses, where you had to save receipts. I don't think that should be necessary. They should just have to pay us a daily rate regardless of what was spent or not spent.

Secondly, my closing was supposed to happen next week, and I had a vacation booked. I asked if I could actually postpone the closing by just a couple of days, but apparently I would have had to pay a penalty. This was infuriating given they have delayed this project for nearly 8 years, and they can't accommodate a push of a couple of days for a closing date they unilaterally impose. So I cancelled my trip and have been spending time arranging my documents in preparation for the close. I have now just been informed via "urgent" letter that they now are delaying my closing AGAIN, 2 two business days from my scheduled final closing date, and after I was told I was not allowed to push it back myself and I had to change my plans to accommodate their date. I am beyond livid at this point, and I definitely feel they need to compensate me. I have been telling many of my friends and contacts to never buy something from Cityzen or Fernbrook as they do not care at all about their buyers, and in fact make the purchase and closing of a property from them an excruciating experience.

All builders do this. The system is broken and I don't see it getting fixed anytime soon. Get compensation. There is absolutely NO protection for purchasers. Nothing.
 
No way Riley, this is getting ridiculous....They cannot delay any further can they? My lawyer said that they need to give you a minimum of 30 days notice....I have to admit that Cityzen and Fernbrook have managed this thing so badly that I will NEVER buy anything from them in the future....ever again! I think alot of it has to do with running this like a family business with no accountability from anyone and in the end we, the customers are left hanging there....I haven't received any letter yet but my occupancy is supposed to be next week! they have messed up all my timings as well on so many things that it would take pages to describe what they have done....I know that Tarion only offers limited protection but we probably need to do something here....maybe a class action lawsuit.....no doubt so many people can join, we just need a good lawyer to take this through....they can't keep getting away with it....no one can tell me that it is legal for them to make you sign dodgy paperwork to get away with stuff....putting the Tarion compensation aside, they are not meeting the 30 day notice of change of occupancy....like I said, never again from these developers, NEVER AGAIN!

I hope they don't also delay your closing. The reason given was "construction delays". Ugh.

I too have considered a class action lawsuit. But I worry that having the building involved in a law suit will drive down the value of the building.
 
I hope they don't also delay your closing. The reason given was "construction delays". Ugh.

I too have considered a class action lawsuit. But I worry that having the building involved in a law suit will drive down the value of the building.

What I am having an issue with are not the delays per se. Any project of that scale is expected to have delays of some sort. My issue is with the lack of proper notice. They completely disregard the fact that people have lives and have to actually make arrangements to accommodate their lack of competence. Seriously, the recent delays have all been given with very few days notice. No one can provide me with any valid excuse here but a lack of organization and planning from their side. They are all clueless, no one has any ideas what is going on, and you can never get a straight answer from anyone over there. Their own internal departments can't seem to communicate with one another. I am sorry, not all developers are like that. Many can actually respond to you and tell you what is going on even if the news is bad but at least they are not clueless and unorganized. It feels like we are back in the stone ages here. Like I said, they have to delay for construction reasons, that is fine, but give the proper 30 days notice for people to make their own arrangements at least. I have a feeling I will receive a letter tomorrow also and I will keep feeling helpless just like the other times. All I can do is share my stories to others so that they know what they might be going through in the future.
 
What I am having an issue with are not the delays per se. Any project of that scale is expected to have delays of some sort. My issue is with the lack of proper notice. They completely disregard the fact that people have lives and have to actually make arrangements to accommodate their lack of competence. Seriously, the recent delays have all been given with very few days notice. No one can provide me with any valid excuse here but a lack of organization and planning from their side. They are all clueless, no one has any ideas what is going on, and you can never get a straight answer from anyone over there. Their own internal departments can't seem to communicate with one another. I am sorry, not all developers are like that. Many can actually respond to you and tell you what is going on even if the news is bad but at least they are not clueless and unorganized. It feels like we are back in the stone ages here. Like I said, they have to delay for construction reasons, that is fine, but give the proper 30 days notice for people to make their own arrangements at least. I have a feeling I will receive a letter tomorrow also and I will keep feeling helpless just like the other times. All I can do is share my stories to others so that they know what they might be going through in the future.

I'd say most developers have delays and a good portion won't give you much notice especially these days where trades are much harder to come by.
 
I'd say most developers have delays and a good portion won't give you much notice especially these days where trades are much harder to come by.[/QUOTE

I understand the reality, and the more noise people will make, the higher the chance that somewhere down the line, in the hopefully not too distant future, someone will listen and actually do something about it. There needs to be a big revamping at the top of the regulations governing preconstruction condos in ontario but change needs to start somewhere, not sure if it will in my lifetime but oh well.....

I learned my lessons though and in the meantime, if i ever consider purchasing a preconstruction condo in the future, ill make sure it is from one of "the best of the worst" so to speak
 
I'd say most developers have delays and a good portion won't give you much notice especially these days where trades are much harder to come by.[/QUOTE

I understand the reality, and the more noise people will make, the higher the chance that somewhere down the line, in the hopefully not too distant future, someone will listen and actually do something about it. There needs to be a big revamping at the top of the regulations governing preconstruction condos in ontario but change needs to start somewhere, not sure if it will in my lifetime but oh well.....

I learned my lessons though and in the meantime, if i ever consider purchasing a preconstruction condo in the future, ill make sure it is from one of "the best of the worst" so to speak

I totally agree with you Sam. That's why I think we are actually entitled to compensation, because they failed to give us the minimum notice times for their many delays. The latest delay is to me the most outrageous, as I got 2 business days notice before the closing. They obviously don't care at all about the impact these constant last minute delays have on the lives of their buyers. And other than demanding compensation, which could add up to a reasonable amount for them to pay given there are 600 units, the only other recourse we have is to spread the word about how terrible they are.
 
Riley are you saying that your delay was for 2 business days or the notice of the delay was given 2 business days before your closing? Sorry just want to see if I need to panic more now
 
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be angry or shouldn't make noise. I just don't think anything will come of it but I support you. Developers get away with so much crap and this would just be another thing they get away with. You're entitled to compensation. Contact the builder first to work out payment. Then if they're lollygagging...contact Tarion. Could take a while to get your compensation, though.
 
Riley are you saying that your delay was for 2 business days or the notice of the delay was given 2 business days before your closing? Sorry just want to see if I need to panic more now

Notice was given only 2 business days before my closing. The delay itself was for a week.
 

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