Is Toronto Beautiful?

[adma]

Sure, I recognize that outer London looks as crappy as outer Toronto, and some of the ugliest urban landscapes I've ever seen were in southern Queens and the northern part of the Bronx which are even uglier than the dumpiest stretches of Dupont or Dufferin. But, the fact that Manhattan and central London shine matters more to me than the fact that every part of the city is treated to a uniformly [bad] public realm treatment.

Let's face it, we don't live an egalitarian world. Sometimes we have to put our best foot forward and privilege certain places and groups at the expense of other places and groups because the ones that receive the privilege bring home the bacon. If downtown Toronto looks dumpy, it reflects badly on all of us, whereas if the intersection of Dufferin and Rogers road looks dumpy it only reflects badly on the people who live there.

Then again, to invert the equation, our ability to "live with" such shabbiness might paradoxically actually enable us to "appreciate" those outer-London/Queens/Bronx zones better than a lot of overly-discerning tourist folk might. Almost like getting a taste of blemishes-and-all "urban fullness".

Come to think of it, if I were currently accomodating visitors to Toronto, I'd gladly take 'em to the Ford Fest next week. Seriously.

 

[Grimace]

i'm really just talking about sidewalks, roads, streetscapes, furnishings, tidiness, plantings/greening... basics, in other words.

But, the fact that Manhattan and central London shine matters more to me than the fact that every part of the city is treated to a uniformly [bad] public realm treatment.

I know this has been said before (and these quotes are from two different people), but Manhattan does not "shine" when it comes to sidewalks, roads, streetscapes, furnishings, tidiness, etc. Manhattan shines for many reasons, but not for that. It may have a couple areas that are well kept up, but most aren't. Most streets are far messier than ours. When I lived there I took a series of photos of street poles that had a ridiculous number of signs on them.

Manhattan's premier parks are in far better shape than our parks, but a lot of that is private money.

Toronto also has a number of "outer" neighbourhoods that are far nicer than what you see in comparable cities. Great walkable neighbourhoods like the Beaches, Roncy, Bloor West, Kingway, etc. Brooklyn has some neighbourhoods like this but generally not as well maintained (except perhaps for Park Slope) with much different residential neighbourhoods behind the main drags.

I'm not saying Toronto could not do better (I am more bothered by our ill-kept parks than streets and sidewalks), but I think the reason Toronto's core is not as well kept as you see in other city cores relates to how it has developed rather than any particular cultural predisposition to shabbiness. Toronto's main core was devastated by the destruction of buildings, the exit of residents and the huge growth of parking lots in the 50s/60s. When every other block is a massive parking lot why worry about the streetscape? Meanwhile, the waterfront was entirely industrial. It is only really recovering from that now, and with an increase of residents in the core and Toronto starting to think of itself a bit more as a tourist city I expect that the improvements we're seeing now will continue.

 

[67Cup]

Besides, Toronto has the Maple Leafs!

Well, never mind.

 

[adma]

My other posts have been wrongly deleted,

Maybe if you didn't post *huge* posts full of slick borrowed imagery, it wouldn't be so "wrongly" (and I can't help smelling some coolcanadianesque tourist-shilling here)

 

[old boy]

For those of us who know and love the hometown there is plenty of the " beautiful ". This goes for most cities, I suspect. Toronto does appear to lack the harmony of set pieces that you get in older places. This is more than offset, in my opinion, by Toronto's protean energy, notwithstanding the plague of look-a-like, glass boxes sprouting everywhere. The Toronto island vantage point for the Toronto skyline is stunning. Like someone once said, it's going to be a great place if they ever get it finished.

 

[pman]

... When you live in a place and get used to it, you begin to appreciate it's beauty less and less...

...Nowhere is perfect, but we are certainly great and getting better!

And perhaps one day we'll even know the difference between it's and its!

 

[vatche]

Is Toronto beautiful??

What do tourists who visit our city say about it?? Their observations. Does anybody work in the tourism industry?? That's a good way to gage the beauty of our city isn't it??

 

[RC8]

Is Toronto beautiful??

What do tourists who visit our city say about it?? Their observations. Does anybody work in the tourism industry?? That's a good way to gage the beauty of our city isn't it??

I've been asked by friends to tour their visiting friends around the city on numerous occasions. I have also toured many of my own friends and family through its streets. Younger people tend to love it and find it beautiful, whereas older people are a lot more selective preferring some areas and not others (they feel threatened by the super liberal postered and vandalised parts of the city - even though they are perfectly safe here, equivalent neighourhoods in other countries aren't).

Overall people do tend to find this city 'amazing' and 'beautiful', but it's a city that definitely requires an thorough introduction. No different from New York City (thoroughly hated by anyone who ignores its context and advantages).

 

[buildup]

There is no question Toronto is interesting. We have a series of very different neighbourhoods being built in front of us from scratch such a SouthCore, Regent Park, Donlands.

 

[Tewder]

We are very lucky. For the most part, Toronto is an extremely safe, livable city. Perhaps beauty can even be found in the different number of ethnic backgrounds living all together in one place.

We are so off topic here!

Overall people do tend to find this city 'amazing' and 'beautiful', but it's a city that definitely requires an thorough introduction. No different from New York City (thoroughly hated by anyone who ignores its context and advantages).

It is very easy to dislike Paris and New York if one chooses to. If you want to see Toronto as ugly, because "it's Toronto" then go ahead. But if you decide to hate your city a little less, then maybe you will see its beauty.

Good grief, can we get some perspective here please.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

torontothegreat:

Here are a list of all your alter-egos:

coolcanadian
coolcanadians
mytoronto
toronto112
toronto118
torontocanada
torontothegreat

Any further attempts will be publicized using a similar method, and if prove ineffectual, further measures will be brought to bear.

AoD

 

[RC8]

Good grief, can we get some perspective here please.

On what? I know substantially more people who 'hate' New York than people who appreciate it. I myself visited it as a kid and found it the most oppressive aggressive and shabby city I ever visited.

I love visiting now, having had the necessary 'intro' to its history and built form.

 

[Lenser]

On what? I know substantially more people who 'hate' New York than people who appreciate it. I myself visited it as a kid and found it the most oppressive aggressive and shabby city I ever visited.

I love visiting now, having had the necessary 'intro' to its history and built form.

Can't say I agree. It's not necessary to be "introduced" to a city's history and built form in order to really dig it. Just wanted to point that out. We're not all urban geeks who trade opinions on architectural details or discuss the finer points of "built form;" there are many people who love NYC but don't feel they need to "study" it per se. And it would be much the same deal in Toronto's case.

 

[RC8]

Can't say I agree. It's not necessary to be "introduced" to a city's history and built form in order to really dig it. Just wanted to point that out. We're not all urban geeks who trade opinions on architectural details or discuss the finer points of "built form;" there are many people who love NYC but don't feel they need to "study" it per se. And it would be much the same deal in Toronto's case.

Where there's no need, you are probably somewhat aware already - either intuitively or due to knowledge you've acquired elsewhere.

On instincts alone, most primates non-native to Manhattan would hate it. I've seen no reason to believe humans would be an exception.

If you like this scene:

Chances are it's mostly cultural (as opposed to innate).

 

[Lenser]

Pshaw. One lone photograph does not a definitive argument make and I expect you know this very well. Too, this business of dragging in primate behaviour looks specious to me and is beside the point. Surely the essence of humanity and human civilization is only marginally due to our primate origins.

My point is that you don't have to intellectually engage with a city in order to groove to it - there are many levels of appreciation and many points of entry. Academics will enjoy one range of factors, others will find their own ways of appreciating what any given city offers.